[CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net

Wed Apr 6 01:15:40 EDT 2016

Randy et al:

I think you answer the question for yourself in your last line.  I don't think anyone decides to not operate because there is an unassisted class ..the reverse isn't true.

73
Steve KL7SB

-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Randy Thompson K5ZD
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 7:06 PM
To: 'Radio K0HB' <kzerohb at gmail.com>; cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net

You misunderstood what I wrote.  The rest of the world in this context means the rest of the contest sponsors.  I made no assertion about one style of operating being better or worse than another.

The CQWW committee spent 240+ man hours this year trying to identify single ops that used spotting without claiming assisted.  The ARRL probably spent 0 hours on this.  So perhaps that is the solution.  Ignore the cheating and let the categories grow together organically.

Whether we like it or not, anyone licensed in the last 20 years doesn’t know ham radio without the DX Cluster.  In my dealing with entrants from all around the world, most don’t understand why there is a distinction.

The main motivation for cheating is because the SO category is considered more “prestigious”.  If both were combined, that motivation is removed.  We could create an overlay category for the guys who want to continue in the traditional way. They could happily battle it out in a sleep deprived test of traditional hunting skills.  I find SOA to use all of the SO skills plus some new ones. The good ops will still be the good ops.

In the end, the important thing is that people get on the air and have fun working stations.  

Randy, K5ZD

From: Radio K0HB [mailto:kzerohb at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 10:08 PM
To: cq-contest at contesting.com; k5zd at charter.net
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net

Randy, you are an experienced and respected guy, one of the most respected and influential guys in contesting. People "pay attention" to posts from K5ZD.

Please do not use that respect and influence to attempt to marginalize the significant subset of Contesters, "SO Not Assisted", as some backward group who has not "moved on" with the other primates.

73, de Hans, KØHB 

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 05:07 Randy Thompson K5ZD <k5zd at charter.net> wrote:

There is another option...  Rather than continue to get twisted in defining the separation, we could merge SO and SOA into one and remove all confusion.
There could be an overlay category for the guys who want to compare themselves to other "classic" ops.

It seems only CQ, ARRL, and SAC maintain the assisted concept.  The rest of the world has moved on.

Randy, K5ZD

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf 
> Of Paul O'Kane
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 12:26 PM
> To: cq-contest at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net
>
> On 05/04/2016 11:54, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
>
> > Sorry, Ron, but I totally disagree.  If it doesn't *assist* someone 
> > to watch a scoreboard without band breakdown information (and it 
> > doesn't), then it is not *assistance*.
>
> We're going round in circles here with everyone interpreting "assist", 
> "assistance" and "Assisted"
> as they, personally, think it should be defined.
>
> All relevant technology assists.
>
> The main difference between the "Assisted" and "Unassisted" categories 
> has always been whether you connect to external networks to improve 
> your score or gain a competitive advantage.
>
> That's why, IMHO, the categories should change to Connected and 
> Unconnected.  That would appear to remove most uncertainty and ambiguity.
>
>    * You use the cluster - you're Connected.
>    * You use the RBN - you're Connected.
>    * You use real-time scoreboards, or any other
>      networked technology, to influence or
>      modify your strategy - you're Connected.
>
> It's really simple - you're either Connected or Unconnected.
>
> I know and accept that local decoders and skimmer- like technology 
> would continue to be "Connected".
> That's why I referred to "the main difference"
> above.
>
> 73,
> Paul EI5DI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > 73, Pete N4ZR
> > Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
> > <http://N1MM.hamdocs.com>. Check
> > out the Reverse Beacon Network at
> > <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> > spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> > For spots, please use your favorite
> > "retail" DX cluster.
> >
> > On 4/5/2016 12:52 AM, Fco. Luis Delgadillo wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Enviado desde mi Huawei de Telcel
> >> Ron
> >> A couple of questions:
> >>
> >> Have you tried yourself the live scoreboard.
> >>
> >> The Best way to finding  out,  is perhaps, if you try the 
> >> scoreboard and then have an informed opinion - to discern facts 
> >> from gut
> feelings?
> >>
> >> -------- Mensaje original --------
> >> Asunto: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net
> >> De: Ron Notarius W3WN
> >> Para: 'Pete Smith N4ZR' ,'CQ Contest'
> >> CC:
> >>
> >>
> >>     But here's the thing Pete.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     When you receive that information. how did you get it? Where did
> >>     it come
> >>     from? You said yourself. "You must decide to post your score" 
> >> and what
> >>     other information is to be posted for use by other operators.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     So ultimately, the answer is. it came from other operators who are
> >>     posting
> >>     that information. How is that not assisted?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Look, I don't have a problem with the scoreboard or similar
> >>     exchanges of
> >>     information. I'm not saying that the software that provides the
> >>     capability
> >>     should be disabled.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Just please don't tell me that it's not "assisted" and using it
> >>     doesn't put
> >>     you into an Assisted or equivalent operating category. It is. (Or
> >>     to put
> >>     it in the vernacular, don't spill a drink on my slacks and then
> >>     tell me it's
> >>     raining.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Sometimes I operate Single Op/Assisted. Sometimes I don't. The
> >>     reasons why
> >>     vary depending on the event in question and how I am choosing to
> >>     approach
> >>     it. I'm comfortable with either category these days. I just don't
> >>     pretend
> >>     one is the other. And I don't ask that the line between them be
> >>     blurred.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Either you are assisted. or you aren't. It is that simple.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     73, ron w3wn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     _____
> >>
> >>     From: Pete Smith N4ZR [mailto:n4zr at contesting.com]
> >>     Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 4:01 PM
> >>     To: Ron Notarius W3WN; CQ Contest
> >>     Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Ron, at least in the case of cqcontest.net and users of MM+, this
> >>     isn't
> >>     true. You must decideB to post your score, and you can decide 
> >> (in
> >> MM+)
> >>     whether or not to include a band breakdown.B Without band 
> >> information,
> >>     access to this resource is nothing but fun, and should not be
> >>     considered
> >>     assistance.B Perhaps the sponsors could voluntarily disable the
> band
> >>     breakdown display during contest weekends, and the whole issue
> >>     would go
> >>     away.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     73, Pete N4ZR
> >>     Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
> >>     . Check
> >>     out the Reverse Beacon Network at
> >>     , now
> >>     spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> >>     For spots, please use your favorite
> >>     "retail" DX cluster.
> >>
> >>     On 4/4/2016 8:16 AM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote:
> >>
> >>     ...The scoreboard is directly based on spotting information.
> >>     Therefore,
> >>     information derived from it is (IMHO) assistance for the purposes
> >>     of most
> >>     contests that recognize this category.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     ---
> >>     This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> software.
> >>     https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>     _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
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> >
>
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