[CQ-Contest] ....youth in contesting
Joe
nss at mwt.net
Fri Mar 25 09:10:59 EDT 2016
Been here done all that.
It is just like general club participation.
I know of several clubs in my area, where the average membership is
between 60 and 80 members,
Yet it is pretty close that only 10% actually show up to any of the
meetings. It is the usual 4 board of directors and two or three others.
And this 10% extends pretty much the other way too, while membership is
60 to 80, according to QRZ, the ham population in this area that the
club has to pull members from is close to 600 hams in this area.
I was amazed the other day, I thought I knew most of the active hams
around me. But just for the heck of it I fired up the APRS.FI site to
test an idea the other day and I hit it to show all, and I noticed a
mobile driving near me. but I did not recognize his call, so I looked
him up on QRZ, and not only is he a local, but obviously a active local
radio wise! Numerous 100 foot self supporting towers, and the like on
his QRZed page. But I have never heard him on the air, or is he a member
of the 4 local clubs, one only a few miles from his house where it meets.
Then there was the other day, I seen a guy make a posting about how he
operated in the NPOTA thing in a park local to me. Surprised to see that
someone did this park near me so again I QRZed him, and Like What!?
He lives 3.3 miles from me!!! Never heard him on HF, or two meters, not
a member of one club only 10 min drive from him or another that is 20
minutes.
Yet once I contacted him, we have beme good buds now, and I got him to
actually try contesting, he is gonna try the contest starting tonight.
He's been licenced since 2000 17 years, and I never knew he was only 3.3
miles away.
Why does it seem hams while social via radio,, they seem to be a very
anti social when it comes to clubs and activities.
Joe WB9SBD
Sig
The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 3/24/2016 10:39 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>
> Well, if things were all rosy as you imply we wouldn't be having these
> discussions and you wouldn't have to work so hard to draw a handful of
> youngsters into the hobby. The reality is that the average age of
> active hams is increasing quite rapidly ... at least 1 year for every
> 2 years that passes from what I can tell from the available data.
> It's not difficult to see where that trend is headed.
>
> As I said before, I am still very interested in ham radio, and
> particularly contesting. But at least I recognize it as a legacy
> fascination, and in my case it now does indeed share time with other
> online pursuits. I find it odd that so many hams haven't even noticed
> that their primary communication medium for discussing ham radio
> topics isn't even ham radio any more ... it's these reflectors!
>
> Ham radio in the U.S. pulls in maybe a few thousand new hams each
> year, most of which don't stick. That number is a small fraction of
> one percent of the number of youngsters who get drawn into competitive
> video games, most of whom stick around for years. And it has nothing
> to do with short attention span or instant gratification like somebody
> else just posted ... that's a trite generalization that simply makes
> folks who don't understand what's going on feel better by berating the
> youth.
>
> Yes, it's challenging to try to navigate the vagaries of propagation,
> but those of us who have been in the hobby for a long time were raised
> within that dynamic. Now it's about as interesting to the average
> person as studying ocean currents to see if you can get a message in a
> bottle to land on a distant shore. Why would they bother other than
> for shear curiosity, and even then why more than once?
>
> This discussion started about contesting, though ... not ham radio in
> general. And my point, which I firmly believe, is that radiosport
> takes a back seat in appeal to several online competitive venues that
> are every bit as difficult to master but offer more breadth and more
> dependability. If I want to test my skill or straegy against somebody
> else (that's what competition is all about), I don't necessarily want
> to have the result so heavily influenced by factors beyond my control
> ... such as propagation or the ability of someone else to outspend me
> on antennas. Online contests are visually stimulating, incredibly
> nuanced, fast paced, give immediate feedback, and most importantly ...
> pit one player (or group of players) directly against another player
> (or group of players) with actions that can be taken and countered.
> AND ... for the most part, everyone's hardware affordably puts them on
> equal footing.
>
> Of course you don't have to agree with any of this, but the numbers
> prove you wrong. Tell you what ... let us know the number of young
> people you attract to your event. I'll compare that to the number of
> teenagers in Winnepeg and Framingham (I'll make some assumptions based
> upon population). Then come back in a year and tell us how many of
> those teenagers at your event still have a demonstrable interest in
> contesting (license, guest op a year later). I can virtually
> guarantee that the numbers will be starkly trivial compared to the
> number of video game players in both of those cities, none of which
> will have needed an event to perk their interest.
>
> I'm not trying to be snide here, but folks like you are exactly why we
> sound so out of touch to today's young people. It's because we are.
> With very few minor changes in scoring rules, contests today are
> pretty much the exact same activity as they were 80 years ago. You
> don't think anything needs to change, and maybe it doesn't ... but if
> it doesn't it won't exist much longer. The demographics don't lie,
> and time will do its job. We'll just ride it out and enjoy it while it
> lasts.
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
> On 3/24/2016 4:09 PM, Gerry Hull wrote:
>> Lloyd and Dave,
>>
>> First, let me say that I disagree with you all.
>>
>> The amateur radio population in the US is at an all-time high. Yes, many
>> of these new hams are V/U types.
>> Part of the problem is we do not elmer them in HF operating.
>>
>> - Many new hams hang out with like-minded V/U repeater ops, a natural
>> thing. However, they soon tire
>> of this, often because GMRS and cell phones offer much the same
>> functionality of what V/UHF FM does. Often,
>> these new hams let their license lapse.
>>
>> Let me ask you a question: If you are interested in technology, and
>> are a
>> contester, why hasn't all of the other
>> technology around you taken you away from contesting/ham radio? Why,
>> I bet
>> it's because contesting, and HF ham radio are as compelling now as
>> it was
>> when those technologies did not exist.
>>
>> HF./Shortwave radio is as compelling now as it was when Marconi first
>> spanned the Atlantic. Yep, there is the internet and ubiquitous
>> communication everywhere on earth. Why haven't we all given up and
>> gone to
>> internet communications?
>> Because, for many reasons, we find the challenge of taming the sun and
>> electromagnetic waves exciting.
>>
>> For me, all the new technologies ENHANCE my experience in HF Radio,
>> they do
>> not detract from it. I love software and
>> computers and networking and the internet. But I still love the hobby I
>> started in 40 years ago.
>>
>> Luckily their are exceptions to disprove your theory on young hams.
>>
>> If you come to Dayton this year, you'll meet Marty, KC1CWF. Marty got
>> his
>> general by age 13. The first time I met Marty was at the New England
>> Division ARRL Convention last summer. Marty had signed up to operate
>> the
>> special event station at the convention. He sat down and I watched him
>> work at 150 Hour on SSB! After his operating, I asked "Who is your
>> dad,
>> what is his call?" No, his dad was not a ham. Neither was his
>> mother (she
>> is getting her license because of her son).
>> Where did he take a class? Nowhere. Completely self-taught. From the
>> internet and books. He is one to watch -- we will see him in the
>> records
>> in years to come. Marty was part of our team at K6ND in ARRL DX
>> SSB M/2
>> this year -- and we will be in the top 3 or 4. He made a great
>> contribution.
>>
>> Matt, KC1DLY, 16 in less than a year, worked DXCC with a long wire in
>> his
>> attic in CT. He has his extra.
>>
>> Kids Day is NOT the way to introduce teenagers to contests. Teenagers
>> today are VERY sophisticated. The way you hook teenagers is to have
>> them
>> are part of REAL teams in REAL contests.. 2nd ops, multiplier hunters,
>> runners. They will rise to the occasion. They will eat up a M/M!
>> It's a
>> good bet that many tech teenagers can whip your station networks and
>> computers into better shape than most of us could.
>>
>> We need HF/Shortwave ambassadors in Amateur Radio.... and who could be
>> better ambassadors to HF than contesters?
>> We live and breath HF every day. We are experts at propagation, station
>> building and operating skill.
>>
>> I not only believe this, I'm putting my money where my mouth is:
>> Actually,
>> my club and friends clubs are.
>> April 2nd in Winnipeg, MB and April 10th in Framingham, MA, we will be
>> putting on an event called "Discover the HF Experience". In MB,
>> this is
>> sponsored by RadioSport Manitoba, co-ordinated by Cary, VE4EA, and in
>> MA by
>> the Yankee Clipper Contest Club, Port City Radio Club, and Framingham
>> ARA.,
>> co-ordinated by myself.
>>
>> At Discover the HF Experience, we will have talks about Bands and
>> Propagation, Buying your first HF Radio, Building Simple Antennas,
>> Chasing
>> Awards, How the Internet enhances the HF Experience, and, yes, An
>> introduction to RadioSport (by K1DG).
>>
>> A key factor at our event is OPERATING. We are planning to have 4
>> remote
>> HF stations available at the event. These will range from simple,
>> residential stations with 100w and wires to contest superstations
>> with 30+
>> antennas and KWs, to DX locations. At each station will be an elmer, to
>> help non-hams, V/U techs, and old timers, if thy are interested, to
>> make HF
>> QSOs.
>>
>> Operating remote may raise some people's feathers. However, to new
>> people
>> in this hobby, it's a natural fit. It also allows us to demonstrate
>> without the physical limitations of the exhibit location.
>>
>> We hope to work a lot of you on those weekends -- stop by and chat with
>> some of these ops. In MA, we will be using the special callsign K1K
>> from
>> all US-based remotes.
>>
>> 73, Gerry W1VE
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Lloyd Cabral <KH6LC at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dave,
>>> I'll have to agree with you on every point here. You've pretty
>>> much laid it out.
>>> For the past 6 years we've been having groups of kids over for the
>>> January
>>> ARRL
>>> Kid's Day event. We do it multi-multi style and make a big
>>> party out
>>> of it.
>>> We get a few kids who come back year after year so we're doing
>>> something
>>> right.
>>> Still, out of those dozens of kids that have come through here, exactly
>>> one has gone
>>> on to get his license. What happened to ham radio clubs in the
>>> High
>>> Schools?
>>> I'm at the point where I truly believe if we stood at the Mall
>>> handing out
>>> ham radio
>>> licenses we wouldn't get any takers. So yes, we should enjoy our
>>> hobby while we
>>> can because unless it morphs into something completely different I
>>> can't
>>> see it lasting.
>>>
>>> 73 & Aloha, Lloyd
>>> www.KH6LC.com
>>>
>>> *******************************
>>>
>>> Dave Gilbert wrote:
>>>
>>> I enjoy contesting, but it's a legacy that isn't going to successfully
>>> compete for attention among anything beyond a very small percentage of
>>> today's youth. Most of the young ops at Field Day or contest stations
>>> are only there because of some family connection, and most of those
>>> don't last. Even the great majority of new hams the ARRL likes to tout
>>> as evidence of a growing base don't stick with the hobby ... if they
>>> did, we wouldn't be having these discussions. I do think that
>>> contesting is drawing a growing percentage of hams, but the base is
>>> getting old fast, and from my perspective here are some of the reasons:
>>>
>>> 1. Ham radio is expensive, especially of you actually want to be
>>> competitive instead of just participating. Rigs and antennas cost far
>>> more than a decent computer or smart phone, both of which offer far
>>> more
>>> effective communication and opportunities for competition.
>>>
>>> 2. Ham radio requires antennas. They are physically obtrusive and
>>> often create conflict with neighbors. Hardly anybody has to fight to
>>> get connected to the internet.
>>>
>>> 3. Ham radio is real time and unreliable, subject to the vagaries of
>>> propagation and activity on the other end. Applications like Twitter,
>>> Facebook, and online forums (like this one) are precise, dependable,
>>> and
>>> "sticky" (you can read and answer at your convenience). Online game
>>> competition against real opponents from around the world is available
>>> around the clock every day with virtually no waiting.
>>>
>>> 4. Ham radio requires a license, one which many of us perceive as
>>> relatively easy to get but which isn't needed at all for any other
>>> pursuit. It's a roadblock with no particular advantage to the user ...
>>> it's not like it keeps LIDs off the air.
>>>
>>> 5. Almost any video game out there is more immediate with more intense
>>> real time competition than ham radio contesting has. You compete
>>> directly against opponents who can counter your moves almost instantly,
>>> and you see the result of that interaction immediately. The breadth of
>>> "weapons", each with their own effects and deficiencies, is probably an
>>> order of magnitude greater than available to a contest operator. The
>>> required strategies for success vary with every match and every
>>> opponent, and often change significantly on the fly. Radiosport has
>>> nothing that even comes close to it (and if you try to tell me that
>>> breaking a pileup qualifies you are really out of touch).
>>>
>>> I honestly hope that radiosport hangs around for a while ... it's fun
>>> for me and I have a lot of money invested in it. But it needs to
>>> change
>>> if it's actually going to draw new people to the game. I've tried to
>>> come up with the idea of a contest format that would capture some of
>>> the
>>> real time features of a video game, particularly the ability to
>>> directly
>>> and immediately counter (either by action or by score) the actions of
>>> another contester, but so far I haven't come up with anything. But if
>>> you think something like that isn't relevant, picture how attractive a
>>> video game or smart phone app would be if you simply sent messages to a
>>> bunch of other users with no effect on what they did and you had to
>>> wait
>>> days, weeks, or months before you saw whether or not you sent more than
>>> they did.
>>>
>>> Ham radio simply doesn't have the fascination for anybody today that it
>>> did for us ... and if we were young again in today's world it wouldn't
>>> for us either. If we want to change the demographics of our hobby, our
>>> hobby is going to have to change. It's as simple as that.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Dave AB7E
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