[CQ-Contest] DX Contest

Thu Nov 3 00:17:44 EDT 2016

Kelly,

The topic kinda drove off in another direction.  There will never be a 
fair DX contest for everyone.

A suggestion was made that maybe USA stations should be able to work 
each other for one point.  The US hams are the only contestants really 
being affected by the zero point rule.  VE's can work USA all day long 
for a point or two and you have a huge population to work.  USA can work 
Canada and we have what 100 times fewer people to work.  I didn't look 
at the numbers of licensed hams in VE.

The European Union is not much different contest wise than the US 
states.  EU can work EU all day long for points and tons and tons of 
mults and there is a growing base of contesting hams in EU.

Instead of people just shutting down the radio and doing something else, 
having someone to work for points would be nice for those of us not in 
the NE corridor.  It won't make that much difference in the scores but 
might keep people playing.

I feel bad for making K3LR's 160 op dig out my puny signal probably for 
nothing on his end or any of the other USA stations. Should we feel bad 
for working our own country for country/zone credit.  I heard sorry so 
many times.  Not really what people should feeling is it?

Short of moving to the east coast what other suggestions do people have 
for making the contest more interesting when condx stink?  If nothing 
continues to be done, you can expect more people to just turn off the 
radio on these types of weekends. That result is bad for all.

W0MU

On 11/2/2016 8:59 PM, Kelly Taylor wrote:
> A Maidenhead system is not going to change any advantage enjoyed by western Euros and northeastern Americans (and Maritime Canadians).
>
> The primary advantage these areas enjoy is relatively easy propagation to the most populous parts of each area.
>
> If I, for example, were to get, say, 2x credit for working longer paths to Europe than, say, VO1, it won't help me because it's not as though I, if I had the best station possible in Manitoba, am going to work even half the Europeans that VO1MP is. I'm sure there have been plenty of times when Gus is running Euros at astonishing rates on 10 when all we hear is crickets.
>
> Let's say your DX system equals 4x the score per contact. Four times zero is still zero.
>
> Plus, a Maidenhead system would put some areas of the world into a double disadvantage. For example, I know I would have far more success running JAs from W5WMU than I would have from even a comparable station in VE4. So from VE4, you get fewer distance points (we are closer to JA than Louisiana is), on contacts that are far more difficult to make.
>
> You can't assume that distance covered is the only factor making contacts more difficult. It might be the case on 160, but even there, we can't even hear 90 per cent of the stuff you guys work.
>
> 73, kelly, ve4xt
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 2, 2016, at 17:04, Trent Sampson <vk4ts at outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> You are talking about massive fundamental change to the most popular event on the calendar.
>>
>> There is a reason it is the most popular - People like it. (despite the grumbles)
>>
>> Adding the complexity to the exchange may or may not work - Your proposal is almost the same as the recently revived Makrothen RTTY Contest. Another example of where DX based scoring failed to excite the punter despite the best intentions of those involved.
>>
>> My suggestion would be this needs its own weekend and promotion and nothing to do with the CQWW as we all know and enjoy.
>>
>>  From VK, we know we can win, Single band Worldwide in the CQWW and very rarely a Multi Op - how do we motivate ourselves ? We reference against our own scores - If the standard was to win WorldWide from VK we would have quit contesting years ago.
>>
>> Distance based ? We would love it - because our paths to anywhere are huge. JA - 7000km USA West Coast 11,000 EU 15,000 - Apply that to our logs with 5000+ QSOs and I can assure you VK and ZL would become the go to place for Contests if scoring was distance based.
>>
>> See you in the Makrothen in 2017 :-)
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Trent Sampson
>> VK4TS
>> Po Box 275 Mooloolaba QLD 4557
>> Mobile 0408497550
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Hammond
>> Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2016 6:49 AM
>> To: CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> Subject: [CQ-Contest] DX Contest
>>
>> I'm changing the topic from "It's not the sunspots folks" to "DX Contest", since the discussion changed from propagation to what constitutes a "DX" contest.
>>
>> If it's a DX contest that you desire, why not change the scoring system to be based on the Maidenhead 2 x 1 degree grid square system that's used in the VHF/UHF world? Logging software would have to be "enhanced" to perform a real-time calculation of the great circle (short path?) distance between stations. This way, DX is actually equal to distance, not some political border / boundary. Q's would be Q's, no matter where, but multipliers would be grid squares, with a weighting based on distance that encourages or rewards "real DX". This levels the playing field, doesn't it? Now San Diego can work Boston, for more "DX value" than say London working Paris. It's DX you're trying to encourage, right, not necessarily Q's?
>>
>> This would remove the "advantage" that many are arguing Europeans have over other parts of the world, or that the East Coast has over the West Coast. In this contest, I could work people in my own city, my own state, my own call area, but my DX score wouldn't be very good.
>>
>> For example:
>>
>> Score = Q's x grid square / distance value, where grid square /distance value =
>>
>>
>> 0-1000   miles, 1 pt
>> 1001-5000 miles, 2 pt
>> 5001-10000 miles, 3 pt
>>> 10,001 miles, 4 pt
>> Yep, log checking would be more complex, too, but of course it would be automated. Anyone claiming a grid square is a greater distance that it actually is would have a busted Q.
>>
>> This scoring system still rewards hams in high population-density areas, so the weighting would have to be non-linear. Essentially the contest would be less of a DXCC entity contest and more of true world-wide (work anybody) contest with a reward for longer-distance Q's.
>>
>> Interested to hear the pros / cons of a DX contest structured this way. Pardon me if there is already a contest (I'm not aware of) that is already scored this way. I think the Stew Perry Top Band Challenge rewards DX Q's by distance, but that's a one-band contest.
>>
>> 73, Tom
>> K8BKM
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