[CQ-Contest] Rules Question M2 CQ WW

VK4TS Trent Sampson vk4ts at outlook.com
Sun Oct 9 00:53:10 EDT 2016

Hi Mike

Here is an example of what is being done - Have a look at the diagrams and you will see how advanced they can get... 



Trent VK4TS

-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: Sunday, 9 October 2016 12:10 PM
To: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Rules Question M2 CQ WW

I understand what is going on now.  Maybe it has always been this way.  
It seemed in the past that M2 and MS were much different than they are today.  Maybe I was just naive, maybe I still am.  I am still trying to wrap my small mind around the new definition of transmitter.


On 10/8/2016 7:20 PM, Kimo Chun wrote:
> Mike,
> N1MMplus makes it easy to run M1, M2, and M/M and NO you are not 
> limited to using only two physical transmitters in M2, but only two 
> signal sources at a time, any two at your disposal in any combination you want.
> It sounds like Tom may be mixing M1 and M2. In M2 you may run 
> simultaneously with both transmitters (any transmitter) each on its 
> own band. Unless in his case, for some technical reason, they were 
> forced to use the 2 radios (say on one desk) that are hardware 
> interlocked and it somehow prevented using both transmitters at the 
> same time on different bands as well​. There is no reason to be 
> running M2 and be restricted to running on one band while doing mults on the second.
> However, back to your question. At the KH6YY contest station (aka 
> currently KH6J in multi-op, formerly KH7XX, KH7X, KH7R) we have 6 
> desks with one band/station per desk. Unfortunately, we've not gotten 
> sophisticated enough to have two interlocked transmitters per band for 
> various reasons. Since the original design brought all the antennas 
> for their respective band to the specific band desk we ran M1 or M2 
> using all six transmitters. You used the transmitter for the band you 
> wanted AT the designated band/desk. So you physically moved to the 
> appropriate band/desk to use that equipment to search for and contact 
> the mults. That's just the way it was. Not the most efficient but it worked.
> We networked 6 computers (all wirelessly, formerly wired) using 
> N1MMplus adding a 7th Master computer and the software would keep 
> track of Transmitter 1 or 2 logging but the OPON login by the operator 
> forced them to select which of the two integrated log streams you were 
> going to add to. Since we didn't change constantly and mostly ran it 
> wasn't much of a problem to just have a moveable sign by the No 1 and 
> one by the No. 2 transmitter. The op wanting to use a third position 
> would ask to use one or the others run log stream for a 10 minute or 
> longer mult chase. Or in the case of M2 we'd have to monitor the band 
> changes per hour which, I believe, N1MM could indicate for you as well 
> (at least time since last change or conversely time remaining). If 
> both were stations were running the relieved operator would give up 
> the sign to the new position if it made sense.
> We've since modified the station so we have two operating desks with 
> access to all antennas through a common Array Solutions 4 x 8 pak. The 
> 8 pak will not allow both desks onto the same antennas (i.e. band) 
> unless we have a big operator error and go to the log periodic which 
> would allow us to mirror the mono-banders. So far, nobody has been 
> that unconscious. I could just unplug it for the duration but it 
> serves as another antenna for searching for mults easily.
> The other 2 inputs go to another operating position at the other end 
> of the room which is dedicated to two radios that Alex, KH6YY, uses as 
> his everyday station (Desk 7).
> If we want to run full M/M we just disconnect the coax runs to the 
> switch at each desk and hook in the band specific antennas directly to 
> its respective desk. Our problem (more so when at a sunspot peak) is 
> finding enough operators, let alone two at each desk should we decide 
> to have more equipment.
> I hope I explained this alright.
> 73, Kimo KH7U  station manager
> KH6YY Contest Station
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2016 12:58:12 -0400
> From: Tom Haavisto <kamham69 at gmail.com>
> To: W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu at w0mu.com>, CQ Contest
>          <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Rules Question M2 CQ WW
> Message-ID:
> <CAKNnRU6RDVAB8_0bS_Aahg6LNUf4=Fses+ETRS6HHGfTtU4Q6w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> I did an M2 at NQ4I a couple of years ago.  We had two radios per 
> band, and a total of six radios.  Two radios per band interlocked - 
> only one could transmit at a time (hardware interlock).  One run radio, one mult radio.
> When we did a band change - say "radio 1" was going from 10 to 20 meters.
> We would stop TX on 10 meters, designate 20 meters as "radio 1", and 
> away we went with a different pair of radios.  That was one band change.
> With M2, you are assisted - allowed to look at the cluster.  We could 
> line up 20 meter mults, ready to go when TX moved to 20.  Once we 
> worked a bunch of mults of 20, we could then move back to 10 meters 
> (ie radio 1), and this counted as band change # 2 for radio 1.
> This activity was independent of what "radio 2" was doing.
> The TX must be identified in the Cabrillo log file - radio 1 or radio 2.
> Logging software takes care of this.
> Does this help?
> Tom - VE3CX
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 11:40 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu at w0mu.com> wrote:
>> I would like some clarification on the Multi 2 transmitter rule.
>>  From the CQ WW Rules Website:
>> *2. Two Transmitters (MULTI-TWO):* A maximum of two transmitted 
>> signals on two different bands may be used at any time.
>> The log must indicate which transmitter made each QSO.
>> Each transmitter may make a maximum of 8 band changes in any clock 
>> hour
>> (00 through 59 minutes).
>> Total output power must not exceed *1500 watts* on any band at any time.
>> Line one says Two transmitters.  Does this really mean just two 
>> transmitters per the contest period?  Rig 1 and Rig 2 and you can 
>> have as many receivers as you want and operators but all contacts 
>> need to be made using rig 1 and rig 2?
>> W0MU
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