[CQ-Contest] R: Re: R: 3V8SS disqualified from WW SSB and WRTC

Kostas SV1DPI sv1dpi at otenet.gr
Wed Feb 22 09:09:26 EST 2017

I read with great interest everyone's opinion. I congratulate the 
Committee's members for the great work they do. I like to participate in 
an event who every cheater is caught. And I think Committee does its 
best on it. There is always the chance to make an error. I don't like it 
but I prefer Committee to be very strictly even that means it's possible 
to make an error. It is not possible to have strong evidence every time. 
This will make us better and more careful. The next time I will tell to 
other guys of my team to be more careful and not to call someone to spot 
us(Ido it now). Additionally I will ask to call everyone of their 
friends and tell them to spot us only if they work us. I will do it 
because I will know this time that Committee is very strictly.

I can understand that it is not possible every log to be checked. 
Additionally I would like Committee checks randomly some of the smaller 
logs and not only the leading stations.

In the other side, I think the penalties should not be the same for 
everything. It is not right for me, someone loose wrtc because he has 
been caught to self spot himself a couple of times. He will be 
disqualified for this event but not in more. Also it is not right to 
punish someone only with DQ when he has added fake qsos in his log. He 
needs a greater penalty. I believe that Committee should decide the 
penalty every time for every illegal action. In some cases, I would like 
to see to get back even old records! At least this is my feeling..

...73 de Kostas SV1DPI
   (One of SZ1A-EP6T)

On 22/2/2017 7:16 πμ, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
> We don't know the stories, so who is to say that they are not guilty 
> beyond a reasonable doubt, just because they argue they did nothing 
> wrong in a public forum proves nothing.
> So the KP4XX should have been DQed based on what facts?  Do we know if 
> CQ looked into that log?  WRTC removed a Qso when they had proof of a 
> real contact.  Isn't that backward?
> A light hand?  No thanks.  This is a sport based around integrity. 
> UT5UGR should have been banned from all contests for 5 years if not 
> more for what was done and the amount of times he was caught. How many 
> logs were missed or not looked at.  Sorry, once a cheater always a 
> cheater.  People rarely change.
> Turn down the amps, and play by the rules.  Why would you want to 
> compete with cheaters?  These folks are doing this on purpose and in 
> most cases planned.
> It they want to cheat, go find another hobby to cheat at.  Don't mess 
> up mine, thanks!
> W0MU
> On 2/21/2017 10:27 PM, Stephen Bloom wrote:
>> I think it would be simpler than that ..
>> There should be a high standard for a DQ ..something close to "Guilty 
>> Beyond a reasonable doubt."  Log padding is easily discernable as 
>> UT5UGR found out ..and the example of KV4FZ where what is claimed is 
>> impossible would be another example ..but the benefit of the doubt 
>> goes to the "defendant."  None of us other than whoever is on the 
>> CQWW committee and the affected ops know the full story, but ..given 
>> that this IS a sport where pride is the prize, "enforcement" needs to 
>> have a light hand, otherwise, this type of argument is going to 
>> dominate over actually having fun.
>> 73
>> Steve KL7SB
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf 
>> Of W0MU Mike Fatchett
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 4:04 PM
>> To: Jamie WW3S <ww3s at zoominternet.net>; Kelly Taylor <ve4xt at mymts.net>
>> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] R: Re: R: 3V8SS disqualified from WW SSB 
>> and WRTC
>> I read the book.  I thought it was an ok read, but really fell short 
>> in explaining the reasoning behind that decision.  I suppose it was 
>> done that way to protect those involved.
>> Not only to make that decision to find out later that the contact 
>> actually existed.  What exactly did they think happened there? Did 
>> that team have some sort of clandestine sched with an SV5 and then 
>> told him to work a few other people?
>> They had the proof in a recording.  What more would they need. Why 
>> the doubt?  Who cast the doubt and for what reasons?  I was not 
>> really paying attention to radio at the time was there ever an 
>> apology or statement from the WRTC folks?
>> These questions and answers really should have been in the book.
>> On 2/21/2017 4:54 PM, Jamie WW3S wrote:
>>> Read the book Contact.....Good read....There was an audio recording 
>>> there also, QSO got thrown and it changed the results of last 
>>> wrtc......
>>> On Feb 21, 2017 12:20 PM, Kelly Taylor <ve4xt at mymts.net> wrote:
>>>> Mike’s right: we only have one side of the story, and we may never 
>>>> get, nor ever be entitled to get, the other side.
>>>> That said, the availability of IP spoofing is not proof of guilt, 
>>>> just as claiming a self-spot came from a different IP isn’t proof 
>>>> of innocence. If his friends verify his claim, is that enough?
>>>> That an audio recording wasn’t proof enough to nullify a claim of 
>>>> having arranged a QSO is interesting, however. As is the OP’s claim 
>>>> every other complaint was resolved, except for two that resulted in 
>>>> no points but also resulted in the DQ.
>>>> I’m also struck by wondering how likely it is a truly guilty party 
>>>> would air an unjustified grievance, considering it is highly 
>>>> unlikely a contest committee would buckle to such pressure.
>>>> Some of the vehemence directed towards eliminating cheating reminds 
>>>> me of William Roper, from A Man for All Seasons, who would lay flat 
>>>> all the laws of the land to get at the devil.
>>>> I’m not trying to impugn the committee nor impugn nor exonerate the 
>>>> original poster. But it is all something worth thinking about going 
>>>> forward.
>>>> 73, kelly, ve4xt
>>>>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 8:33 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu at w0mu.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I can't believe people cheat in radio contests.  Shame on them. 
>>>>> Ops that are fantastic padding logs, power violations too many to 
>>>>> mention, remote receivers across the globe, self spotting and on 
>>>>> and on for what?
>>>>> A 50 dollar wooden plaque or a piece of paper with fancy lettering 
>>>>> on it.
>>>>> Once again we have heard one side of the argument.  Does anyone 
>>>>> know what proof CQ has in this case.  Maybe there is much more to 
>>>>> this story.
>>>>> In computer gaming, every time a cheater that has been caught who 
>>>>> goes public to argue his case, each and every case that person was 
>>>>> proven to be in the wrong.   Going public is the last hope to get 
>>>>> a bunch of sympathy from people that have ZERO facts.
>>>>> For the record IP spoofing is incredibly easy.  Who cares if you 
>>>>> have a static address.  It means nothing and proves nothing.  The 
>>>>> young hacker modding crowd have been using IP spoofing for years 
>>>>> and years.
>>>>> Please stop trying to justify bad behavior.
>>>>> W0MU
>>>>> .
>>>>> On 2/21/2017 8:17 AM, Alessandro Gromme wrote:
>>>>>> I feel bad for anyone who gets DQ'ed in a contest as well if anyone
>>>>>> has broken the rules and has been unmasked.
>>>>>> if someone did not break the rules, and is accused of having done
>>>>>> so, has clear and irrefutable evidence of not having done and is
>>>>>> still qualified, this I call it "decide in advance and deliberately
>>>>>> to exclude someone from the rankings."
>>>>>> about your sentence: "They usually have some pretty solid evidence.
>>>>>> The WRTC committee makes the rules for qualifying not CQ." well ...
>>>>>> I can tell you that in my case they have an ip that is not located
>>>>>> in my area, which, as belonging to a range of dynamic IP is in turn
>>>>>> assigned to different users on the network, which can not in any
>>>>>> way attributable specifically to me.
>>>>>> I have a contract with the static IP Internet provider signed three
>>>>>> years ago, an IP that never changes, and that is only assigned to 
>>>>>> my station.
>>>>>> Now I ask: "who have secure and unassailable proof of something?"
>>>>>> This is their strength, their luck: there are many people who can
>>>>>> not believe that the committee is acting improperly and therefore
>>>>>> assumes that they are always right, even in these cases as plugging
>>>>>> your eyes or putting your head under the sand like ostriches but it
>>>>>> is not so
>>>>>> 2017-02-21 4:43 GMT+01:00 Jeff Clarke <ku8e at bellsouth.net>:
>>>>>>> I feel bad for anyone who gets DQ'ed in a contest. That being said
>>>>>>> I'm 100 percent sure that the CQWW contest committee doesn't take
>>>>>>> the decision to disqualify someone li
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