[CQ-Contest] Prohibiting Interleaved CQs - killing Inovation

Thu Mar 16 11:19:01 EDT 2017

Sounds like we need to move these ultra competitive people into their 
own class.  IE SO2R that has been tossed around for ages.

So the best of the best can dictate what happens to the rest of us in 
the contest?  People seem to forget without all the non competitive 
people, who you expect to religiously show up over and over again while 
you continue to criticize and have little regard for, you would have 
very few people to actually work.

Where does it stop?  If I can interleave every Morse characters across 
10 or 100 frequencies I should be allowed to do it and not worry about 
what it does to every other user of the band?  I don't think so.  We 
have rules and too many rules because people continue to push the 
limited rules as much as possible and continue to do what is not good 
for the hobby or contesting to meet their personal goals.

When you take the fun away from the regular guy, he will go find 
something else to do.  There are many many other outlets for 
entertainment today.

W0MU

On 3/16/2017 5:21 AM, 4O3A wrote:
> Advanced SO operating is skill based. I know many contesters who are 
> not capable to run SO2R at all. They are not competitive any more.
> We are competing who has better skill. New improved SO operating 
> techniques are a necessity and I hope this will never end. It keeps 
> our sport exciting. CW monsters with lot of practice on Morse runner 
> or RUFZ are amazing to me, and better than me. They will be much 
> better in listening two synchronized pile ups and it's all about the 
> skill. I will not complain and ask contest organizers to "tie their 
> hands" with limitation in rules. I will rather spent some time 
> practicing and trying to be competitive.
>
>
> 73
>
> Ranko
>
>
> On 3/16/2017 1:52 AM, Radio K0HB wrote:
>> I agree that SO-Split is equally hoggish if it consumes two QRG's in a
>> single band segment.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 17:45 Rudy Bakalov <r_bakalov at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The same argument can be made for working so split. Sounds like the two
>>> use cases of using extra spectrum are treated differently. You can't 
>>> pick
>>> and chose and favor one vs the other.
>>>
>>> Rudy N2WQ
>>>
>>> Sent using a tiny keyboard.  Please excuse brevity, typos, or
>>> inappropriate autocorrect.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 15, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Helmut, I don't think that this resistance to interleaved-CQ is
>>>> "anti-innovation" at all, but resistance to "excess occupancy".
>>>>
>>>> By any reasonable measure, running interleaved CQs on two QRG's in the
>>> same
>>>> band consumes two operating channels on that band. In the existing 
>>>> period
>>>> of limited propagation, many would consider such double-occupancy of a
>>>> finite resource to be selfish, not innovative.
>>>>
>>>> Suppose for a moment, that I could "innovate" a method of 
>>>> interleaving 10
>>>> CQs on a single band. Would you applaud my innovation, or would you 
>>>> curse
>>>> my hoggery?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 11:07 Helmut Mueller <helmut at photo42.de> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Guys.
>>>>>
>>>>> These "new" techniques are just the evolution of contest, deal 
>>>>> with it!
>>>>>
>>>>> There are different contests out there who have different rules and
>>> smart
>>>>> people REALLY understand the rules and apply every effort that is
>>> allowed
>>>>> by the rules! This is called contesting art or INOVATION!
>>>>>
>>>>> You want to make all contests the same? Keep whining!
>>>>>
>>>>> Centurys ago someone came up with stacked antennas: I bet there were
>>>>> people moaning about this.
>>>>> Centurys ago someone came up with computer logging and keying: I bet
>>> there
>>>>> were people moaning about this.
>>>>> Centurys ago someone came up with SO2R: People were moaning about 
>>>>> this.
>>>>> There are many more examples like this ... now we have SO2RUN or
>>>>> Interleave QSOs!
>>>>>
>>>>> I call this innovation! It is fantastic!
>>>>>
>>>>> This is from the PJ2T website:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dedicated to fun, international friendship, and advancement of the
>>>>> contesting art through superior operating technique and maximum
>>> application
>>>>> of technology
>>>>>
>>>>> Could not say it any better!
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>>
>>>>>   Helmut DF7ZS
>>>>>
>>>>> df7zs.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>> Von: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] Im Auftrag
>>> von
>>>>> W0MU Mike Fatchett
>>>>> Gesendet: Wednesday, 15 March, 2017 04:50 AM
>>>>> An: cq-contest at contesting.com
>>>>> Betreff: Re: [CQ-Contest] Prohibiting Interleaved CQs on Two or More
>>>>> Frequencies in the Same Band
>>>>>
>>>>> If you agree that the rules need to be changed,  you need to make 
>>>>> your
>>>>> ARRL Division Directors aware of your feelings.  I believe there is a
>>>>> meeting coming up soon and I believe that this item can be taken 
>>>>> up at
>>> that
>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternating CQ's on different bands is pretty common on RTTY.  I 
>>>>> think
>>>>> that this practice should be allowed and monitored to make sure that
>>>>> stations are adhering to the one transmitted signal at a time for 
>>>>> Single
>>>>> ops.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can only image the situation where we have a wall of stations at
>>>>> 14.150 going up and 14.347 going down for alternating cq's. Add in EU
>>> and
>>>>> the Caribbean and we have a big mess.
>>>>>
>>>>> W0MU
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/14/2017 5:08 PM, Dick Green WC1M wrote:
>>>>>> I strongly support Frank's proposal, but the prohibition should 
>>>>>> apply
>>> to
>>>>> Single Ops, too, as it does in CQ WW.
>>>>>> I realize that multi-op stations are more likely to be equipped 
>>>>>> to do
>>>>> alternating CQs on the same band (A and B radios with two ops on each
>>> band,
>>>>> multiple antennas per band with good isolation), but it certainly 
>>>>> can be
>>>>> done in an SO2R station. If only one band is open enough to run, then
>>> the
>>>>> impact on the spectrum is the same.
>>>>>> Is there a compelling reason to allow Single Ops to do 
>>>>>> alternating CQs
>>>>> on the same band?
>>>>>> Actually, I think a case could be made for banning alternating CQs
>>>>> altogether. I'd regret that because I've sometimes used it as a 
>>>>> Single
>>> Op
>>>>> to boost rate or fight boredom, but it definitely does use up more
>>>>> spectrum. If only two bands are open in a big contest, that 
>>>>> spectrum is
>>>>> likely to be very limited. What if a rare mult running low power 
>>>>> can't
>>> find
>>>>> a place to CQ because the alternating CQers are taking up more than
>>> their
>>>>> share of space? What about the impact on non-contesters?
>>>>>> 73. Dick WC1M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: donovanf at starpower.net [mailto:donovanf at starpower.net]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 2:01 PM
>>>>>> To: CQ-Contest Reflector <cq-contest at contesting.com>
>>>>>> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Prohibiting Interleaved CQs on Two or More
>>>>>> Frequencies in the Same Band
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I recommend that alternating CQs on two or more frequencies on 
>>>>>> the same
>>>>> band be prohibited immediately in all ARRL HF contests, exactly as 
>>>>> it is
>>>>> now prohibited in all CQ WW DX Contests and for multi-operators in 
>>>>> the
>>> IARU
>>>>> HF Championship.
>>>>>> The reason for my recommendation is that the recent success of the
>>>>>> PJ4G team in CQing on alternate frequencies on the same band 
>>>>>> (both on
>>>>>> 20 and 15 meters) in the recent ARRL SSB DX Contest will 
>>>>>> inevitably be
>>>>>> applied -- very soon -- by other multi-operator competitors in 
>>>>>> future
>>>>>> ARRL contests. Unfortunately this will be to the very considerable
>>>>>> detriment of other HF spectrum users
>>>>>> -- both contesters and non-contesters -- because of the very limited
>>>>> available spectrum on every HF band below 28 MHz.
>>>>>> The obvious course of action is to simply apply existing IARU HF
>>>>> Championship rule 4.3.2.1 to all multi-operator categories in all 
>>>>> ARRL
>>> HF
>>>>> contests.
>>>>>> 4.3.2.1. Alternating CQs on two or more frequencies on the same 
>>>>>> band is
>>>>> not permitted.
>>>>>> http://www.arrl.org/iaru-hf-championship
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A CAC sub-committee is currently engaged in a Rules Consolidation
>>>>> Project to consolidate “The General Rules of all ARRL Contests”
>>>>>> “The General Rules for all ARRL contests Below 30 MHz” and 
>>>>>> individual
>>>>> contest rules into a single rule set for each of the ARRL HF 
>>>>> Contests.
>>>>>> In addition to the consolidation of the rules structure, the ARRL
>>>>> Programs and Services Committee (PSC) asked the team to develop any
>>>>> accompanying commentary they choose as to areas where the perceive 
>>>>> that
>>> the
>>>>> rules might benefit from revision and, where appropriate, to suggest
>>>>> revised language.
>>>>>> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/About%20ARRL/Committee%20Reports/2016/J 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> uly/Doc_24_0716.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While the CAC's role is solely to respond to projects and issues
>>>>> assigned by the ARRL Programs and Services Committee; the CAC 
>>>>> chairman
>>> can
>>>>> recommend future CAC projects and issues to the PSC.
>>>>>> 73
>>>>>> Frank
>>>>>> W3LPL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> 73, de Hans, K0HB
>>>> -- 
>>>> "Just a boy and his radio"™
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>> -- 
>> 73, de Hans, K0HB
>> -- 
>> "Just a boy and his radio"™
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