[CQ-Contest] FT8 not allowed in Winter Field Day?

Thu Jan 17 12:12:27 EST 2019

Amir,

ARRL did not alter their field day rules to support FT8.  WSJT-X did.  WFD might be a newcomer, but so is FT8.  The sponsors of WFD asked WSJT to support WFD, and my understanding is that they were told it would happen.  It didn’t.  You shouldn’t “dump” on the sponsors of WFD.  They have nothing against FT8.  None.  It’s easy to converse with JS8-Call (which is modified FT8 to overcome the limitations FT8 has), and JS8-Call QSOs are allowed.

The sponsors of WFD want people to be prepared for a winter emergency, and they want them to get out in the field in the cold weather.  I’d like to see that as the positive focus of this discussion, not making accusations that have limited merit.

I hope you find a lot of other people using FT8 that are participating in WFD.  Make sure you get their correct exchanges in the log.  And submit your score.

Bruce, K1BG

From: Amir Findling [mailto:sarlabs at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 10:57 AM
To: bruce.blain at charter.net
Cc: cq-contest; Radio K0HB; Neil Johnson; Sean Waite; rjairam at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] FT8 not allowed in Winter Field Day?

Winter field day is a newcomer to the field.  A bit of massaging of the rules to allow FT8, and perhaps creating multipliers that favor modes more appropriate for emergency operations, would have included FT8 users. 

They chose to exclude us,  too bad,  I'll be on FT8. 

BTW,  setting up a field FT8 station is the same basic work as setting an FLdigi station,  so there would have been good relevant training there... So really it was just adapting rules...  Bad move,  I  bet the ARRL field day will see growth like they have never seen. 

-- 

73 de Amir K9CHP 

ARRL, Emergency Coordinator, Onondaga County, NY
Radio Amateurs of Greater Syracuse  www.ragsclub.org
Wilderness SAR www.wsar.org (ret.)
Eagle Valley Search Dogs www.evdogs.org (ret.)

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 10:02 Bruce Blain <bruce.blain at charter.net wrote:

Amir,

Before I go out on a cold winter day to participate in winter field day, please share with everyone how you would make a winter field day contact using FT8.  To my knowledge, the latest version of FT8 (really WSJT-X 2.0) only supports message formats for North American VHF contests, European VHF contests, ARRL Field Day, and ARRL RTTY Roundup.  I've tried it, and I'm stumped!

To my knowledge, there is no support for WFD, and no way to add it.  Please share with us how you would accomplish this, before I set up in the snow.

Thanks in advance.

Bruce, K1BG

-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Amir Findling
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 8:26 AM
To: rjairam at gmail.com
Cc: Radio K0HB; Neil Johnson; cq-contest; Sean Waite
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] FT8 not allowed in Winter Field Day?

Hi there,
We are ham radio operators,  communicators,  not excommunicators!  No
reason to ban a mode! Changes can be made to the rules to adapt to the
limitations of FT8, and while making these changes add a multiplier factor
so that modes that are more appropriate to emergencies would be favored,
but FT8 users would not be excluded.

I had intended to participate in the winter field day,  in a minor way,
now I'm not going to.  They dislike a mode that many are using nowadays to
the point of banning it,  I  will reply with a boycott of winter field day
on all modes!

-- 

73 de Amir K9CHP

ARRL, Emergency Coordinator, Onondaga County, NY
Radio Amateurs of Greater Syracuse  www.ragsclub.org
Wilderness SAR www.wsar.org (ret.)
Eagle Valley Search Dogs www.evdogs.org (ret.)

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 16:17 rjairam at gmail.com <rjairam at gmail.com wrote:

> In that case I think I'll stick to summer field day, then. There is a
> vocal anti-FT8 contingent. I choose to boycott them if they are
> hostile to a mode that for some has meant the difference between
> making contacts and simply packing up and finding another hobby.
>
> 73
> Ria, N2RJ
>
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 11:16, Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Darn!  I mis-spoke!
> >
> > FT8 is not allowed as stated at the top of the rules.
> >
> > K0HB
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 08:34 Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I just read the rules.
> >>
> >> As far as I can see, the FT8 mode is not specifically banned.
> >>
> >> If you can send and receive the required “contest exchange”, go ahead
> and use it.
> >>
> >> DISCLAIMER: I am not a member of the WFD rules committee, and I do not
> play one on TV.
> >>
> >> 73, de Hans, K0HB
> >> “Just a Boy and his Radio”™
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 08:23 rjairam at gmail.com <rjairam at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Why?
> >>>
> >>> Is telemetry not an important capability we can use? This is a very
> >>> practical possible application of WSJT modes. Furthermore even by
> >>> itself modes like WSPR can help us automatically measure propagation
> >>> to measure capabilities of our stations, i.e. determining when the
> >>> band opens and closes at our location. You can even do that in FT8
> >>> where a wider variety of signals from various places arrive at our
> >>> antennas. And even going further, as mentioned, JS8Call takes FT8 all
> >>> the way to a full conversational mode.
> >>>
> >>> There are hams now who are saying "FT8 is not real radio because it's
> >>> computers talking to one another" or "it requires no skill." To that I
> >>> say, nonsense. As hams we have found new ways to communicate over the
> >>> years. We should embrace this sort of progress.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 73
> >>> Ria, N2RJ
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 22:42, Radio K0HB <kzerohb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > That makes good sense to me.
> >>> >
> >>> > Communications modes in an emergency situation must be able to carry
> a
> >>> > payload of information.  The mode must be robust enough to carry a
> payload
> >>> > beyond “R-17” and “RR73”.
> >>> >
> >>> > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> >>> > “Just a Boy and his Radio”™
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 15:38 Sean Waite <waisean at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > One comment that was suggested in a thread elsewhere was that
> Field Day is
> >>> > > about being able to test out our ability to deploy in "emergency"
> >>> > > situations. FT8 cannot really be used in this type of situation
> because of
> >>> > > it's limited vocabulary.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Sean WA1TE
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 3:44 PM Neil Johnson via CQ-Contest <
> >>> > > cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > > Just curious as to why the sudden rules change?
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > https://www.winterfieldday.com/rules
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > D-Star and Fusion contacts are allowed why not FT8?
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > --
> >>> > > > Neil Johnson (N0SFH)
> >>> > > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> > > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>> > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > --
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>> > >
> >>> > --
> >>> > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> >>> > --
> >>> > "Just a boy and his radio"™
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>
> >> --
> >> 73, de Hans, K0HB
> >> --
> >> "Just a boy and his radio"™
> >
> > --
> > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> > --
> > "Just a boy and his radio"™
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
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