[CQ-Contest] What's your Opinion on 2BSIQ ?

Tue Jun 2 15:16:12 EDT 2020

Jeff,
I agree with you. As an example when operating ARRL from the Caribbean and running on 15M SO1R unassisted, sometimes you have to make a decision to stop your run and see if 10M opened. But if I was SO2R I can keep my run going and call CQ on 10M. That gives the SO2R a decided advantage over SO1R.
I think it is great what some of these SO2R ops can do. I am not trying to discourage it. I just think SO1R and SO2R should not be in the same category.
This past ARRL SSB I switched to SO1R Assisted just so I was with more ops in my league and not the SO2R folks. I still basically operated as unassisted.
Stay safe
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest <cq-contest-bounces+tony.kaz=verizon.net at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Jeff Clarke
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 12:43 PM
To: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] What's your Opinion on 2BSIQ ?

Ria,

You totally missed the point. I never proposed that the ARRL (or CQ) allow dual CQing on the SAME band. The fact is that this practice was allowed in the ARRL DX contest up until about 5 years ago because it wasn't addressed in the rules. Someone on this reflector called out a well known contest station in the Caribbean who was doing dueling CQ's on the same band in the ARRL DX SSB as to suggest they were cheating. 
They weren't because they were taking advantage of a loophole in the rules, like every competitive contester does. Someone who has a lots of clout with the ARRL pointed out this inconstancy in their rules as compared to other contests and the rule was changed the very next year. 
If I'm not mistaken I believe this practice was also allowed in the CQ contests for a long time before the rules were changed to ban it. The examples I used in my comments were for a station doing dual CQs on two DIFFERENT bands.

That being said I'm not proposing that 2BSIQ or SO2R be banned. It should just be a separate category. The rational I'm using is the same that was used to separate SOLP, SOQRP, SOA from the traditional SOHP category in most contests. The same could be said for the Classic and Tribander/Wire categories in the CQ contests. Think about this analogy in motorsports.  Would it be fair for a Formula One race car to compete directly with a NASCAR. Those of you who follow auto racing know the answer to that question. That's why all motorsports have different formulas (i.e different racing series). It seems like some people seem to think it's fair to group all single-operators together whether they are using one radio or two. Having a 2nd radio to do dual CQs on separate bands or to just look for stations/multipliers gives someone a huge advantage just like using a spotting network as SOA does.

Jeff

On 6/2/2020 09:22 AM, rjairam at gmail.com wrote:
> "The rules for ARRL contests prohibit dual CQing on the same band:"
>
> This is also true for CQ sponsored contests. It is general rule IX 7.:
>
> "Only one signal on a band is allowed at any time. When two or more 
> transmitters are present on the same band, a hardware device MUST be 
> used to prevent more than one signal at any one time. Alternating CQs 
> on two or more frequencies on a band is not permitted."
>
> 73
> Ria, N2RJ
>
> On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 09:05, Richard F DDonna NN3W <richnn3w at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jeff, I'm going to have to disagree with you.  The fact of the matter 
>> is that the current rules fully allow 2BSIQ operating.  The rules of 
>> most all contests for single operators state that only one 
>> transmitted signal is allowed at one time.  2BSIQ operating fully 
>> complies with this requirement.  This is simply a progression of traditional SO2R operating.
>> SO2R is pretty common at stations these days, and the ability to do 
>> 2BSIQ operating is simply an evolution of operator skill and practice 
>> - as opposed to an additional hardware feature that is not available 
>> to any ham.
>>
>> Lets remember also that most all other categories are more than 
>> simply one operator and one radio.  Multi-single entrants often have three radios:
>> radio #1 that is running on one band, radio #2 that is picking off 
>> mults on a second band, and radio #3 that is working in-band S&P on 
>> the same band as radio #1.  As long as there is only one transmitted 
>> signal and the rules permit a mult hunter radio, there is again no 
>> rules violation.  Multi-2 stations often have four radios.
>>
>> The rules for ARRL contests prohibit dual CQing on the same band: 
>> "alternating CQs on two or more frequencies using the same band and mode is prohibited."
>>   The rules are absolutely silent on dual CQing on the same band, 
>> which clearly implies that as the ARRL general rules specifically 
>> prohibit in-band dual running, the rules contemplate two band running.
>>
>> I personally am not up to nuff on 2BSIQ on CW. I can do it on SSB.
>> Probably because I havent practiced it enough.  I will say for 
>> certain that I have done some 2BSIQ on CW - but usually when one band 
>> is runnable and when one band is just getting going.  I find it to be 
>> a valid technique in assessing which band is "hotter".
>>
>> Could the rules be amended to expressly prohibit simultaneous "CQs"?  
>> Sure, go ahead and try.  I'm not sure how it really helps anyone.
>>
>> 73 Rich NN3W
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 2:39 AM Jeff Clarke <ku8e at ku8e.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are about 2BSIQ ? Do you 
>>> think it's fair to group those who operate this way in with a 
>>> traditional single-operator or should it (and SO2R) be a separate 
>>> category? I've found by looking at the 3830 claimed scores that 
>>> those who do 2BSIQ come close to doubling the score of everyone else.
>>>
>>> There's also a technically in the rules for most contests that you 
>>> aren't really on a band unless you are transmitting. I just happened 
>>> to come across a video on YouTube of a well known contester who 
>>> recorded himself operating 2BSIQ. What he did is when he was 
>>> operating on one band and in the middle of a QSO  he would be CQing 
>>> on another band. So he was basically doing a Multi-2 minus 
>>> transmitting at the same time with one operator and managing two 
>>> pileups of stations calling him. Also consider that if you are 
>>> Multi-Single you're limited to how many QSY's you can make on a 2nd 
>>> radio while doing Single-Op SO2R there is no limitation. Is that 
>>> really fair?  For M/S why not just allow unlimited QSY's on your 2nd 
>>> radio  if you're only working multipliers on that station. It would 
>>> be pretty easy to for those checking your log to validate this.
>>>
>>> CQ kind of addresses these issues but why are the Classic rules 
>>> different between CQWW and CQ WPX? I want to operate more than 24 
>>> hours in CQWW.  There isn't anything classic about only allowing 24 
>>> hours in CQWW. It's basically a category for old guys that can't do 
>>> more than 24 hours anymore. Also why isn't there a Tribander/Single 
>>> Element category in CQWW?  Plus this category in WPX says you can't 
>>> use a receive antenna. What's going on with that?
>>>
>>> Why not make these categories consistent between all CQ sponsored 
>>> contests using the WPX definition of Classic and Tribander/Single Element ?
>>>
>>> *CQWW Rules :*
>>>
>>> /1. Classic Operator (CLASSIC): The entrant will use only one radio, 
>>> no QSO finding assistance, and may operate up to 24 of the 48 hours 
>>> – off times are a minimum of 60 minutes during which no QSO is 
>>> logged. If the log shows more than 24 hours of operation, only the 
>>> first 24 hours will be counted for the overlay score. The one radio 
>>> must not be able to receive while transmitting. Single Operator 
>>> Assisted entries are not eligible for this category./
>>>
>>> *CQ WPX Rules :*
>>>
>>> /1. Tribander/Single Element (TB-WIRES): During the contest an 
>>> entrant shall use only one (1) tribander (any type, with a single 
>>> feed line from the transmitter to the antenna) for 10, 15, and 20 
>>> meters and single-element antennas on 40, 80, and 160 meters. 
>>> Separate receiving antennas are not permitted in this category./*
>>> *
>>>
>>> /3. Classic Operator (CLASSIC): The entrant will use only one radio, 
>>> no QSO finding assistance, and the one radio must not be able to 
>>> receive while transmitting. Operator Assisted entries are not 
>>> eligible for this category./
>>>
>>> /
>>> /
>>>
>>> *ARRL DX Rules :*
>>>
>>> The Multi-Single rules for ARRL DX are even worse. You have to take 
>>> time away from your run station to work multipliers on a 2nd band. 
>>> But there aren't any QSY limitations for a single-operator. So like 
>>> the CQ contests you can operate like a traditional multi-2 station 
>>> in a CQ contest without any limitations. ARRL - Why not add a 
>>> Classic - Tribander/Single Element category like CQ has?
>>>
>>> /3.4.4 Band Changes. Single Transmitter and Two Transmitter 
>>> sub-category entries are limited to six (6) band changes per clock 
>>> hour per transmitter./
>>>
>>> /
>>> /
>>>
>>> I hope those who operate 2BSIQ in contests  don't take my comments 
>>> personally. I'm not against the technological advances we have in 
>>> contesting these days. I just think it's fair to those who don't 
>>> have the means to have all the equipment necessary to do this not be 
>>> grouped in with those who do.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff KU8E
>>>
>>>
>>>
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