[CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting

[ku8e]

EdThere isn't a category for SB assisted so he would need to submit his score as SOAB Assisted. So I guess all those guys who post their scores on 3830 as single band assisted have them reclassified as SOAB Assisted. N2IC pointed out to me a rule that I missed in the General ARRL Rules that say you can't use non radio assistance to solicit contacts. I guess it's up to the people at the ARRL contest desk to determine if running a live stream constitutes soliciting contacts like calling someone on the phone or using Facebook to arrange QSO'S. JeffSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Edward Sawyer <EdwardS at sbelectronics.com> Date: 3/12/20  3:18 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Jeff Clarke <ku8e at ku8e.com>, cq-contest at contesting.com Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting Jeff.  I agree with you that the ARRL rules leave a lot of gap.  And if Ray enters as 20M SB Assisted, he probably has an argument.  However if he enters unassisted, he is in clear violation of "using the internet" which is not allowed for any active part of the QSO or finding process.  CQ WW and CQ WPX additionally have Conduct rules defining soliciting contacts through non-amateur means.  I don't think even the assisted class would allow what Ray was doing.But the Contest sponsors should speak up on this issue.Ed  N1UR________________________________________From: CQ-Contest [cq-contest-bounces+edwards=sbelectronics.com at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Clarke [ku8e at ku8e.com]Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:36 PMTo: cq-contest at contesting.comSubject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and ContestingI think in the future contest sponsors need to define exactly whatassisted means in their contest since the way the rules are sometimeswritten they can be ambiguous.For Example :*CQWW Rules for SO but allowed for SOA :*/*QSO finding assistance*//: The use of any technology or other sourcethat provides call sign or multiplier identification of a signal to theoperator. This includes, but is not limited to, use of a CW decoder, DXcluster, DX spotting web sites (e.g., DX Summit), local or remote callsign and frequency decoding technology (e.g., CW Skimmer or ReverseBeacon Network), or operating arrangements involving other individuals.//Self-spotting or asking to be spotted is not permitted. (not allowedfor SOA either)/*ARRL Rules :*/3.2. Single Operator Unlimited://////The use of spotting assistance or automated, multi-channel decoders ispermitted.//////2.2.1. Use of spotting assistance or nets (operating arrangementsinvolving other individuals, DX-alerting nets, packet, multi-channeldecoders such as CW Skimmer, etc) not physically located at the stationis permitted. (Exception: spotting information obtained from any sourceoutside the station boundary via a closed or dedicated communicationlink may not be used.)////////3.3.3. Single Band entries are NOT permitted to use spottingassistance. Use of spotting assistance will cause the entry to bereclassified to the Single Operator Unlimited, High Power category./I think the CQWW rules are much clearer than the ARRL's.  In fact theARRL DX rules makes no mention of self-spotting. Also note neithermention live streaming. I'm sure Ray, W2RE is a good guy and he wasn'tintending on cheating or gaining some type of competitive advantage.He's been contesting a long time and given much back to the contestingcommunity with his tower company and RHR. I think most active contestersknow who the habitual cheaters are and he isn't one of them.W2RE posted his score as SB 20 meters. If he submits his entry as SOassisted based on the rules I quoted above he should have no problemsbecause he didn't break any rules for an ARRL sponsored contest. Contestsponsors also need to determine if running a live stream is consideredto be self-spotting and update their rules for next time. (CQWW Rules)I wish you guys wouldn't pile on and accuse W2RE of cheating because hedidn't. Read the ARRL DX rules. http://www.arrl.org/arrl-dxJeff KU8EOn 3/12/2020 11:30 AM, donovanf at starpower.net wrote:> I'm surprised at Randy's comment that " it is impossible to measure the impact or harm">>> Unique QSOs in the W2RE log will provide a measure of the impact>>> 73> Frank> W3LPL>>> ----- Original Message ----->> From: k5zd at charter.net> To: "Edward Sawyer" <EdwardS at sbelectronics.com>, cq-contest at contesting.com> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:12:10 PM> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting>> I am in favor of big stations and remote operations. Live streaming so> others can hear what it sounds like is also good. Promoting ham radio and> contesting using social media is great (and needed)!>> I share the concerns about when the live PR effort bleeds into soliciting> activity for the station doing this. The rules are fairly clear that use> of non-amateur means to solicit contacts is prohibited (written back when> people would use the telephone to get multipliers on the air).>> In this case, it is impossible to measure the impact or harm. I.e., we> don't know how much it helped the score or if it would have changed the> order of finish. Even so, the rules are the rules. It will be up to the> sponsor to decide where they want to draw the line for their contest.>> Randy K5ZD>>> -----Original Message-----> From: CQ-Contest <cq-contest-bounces+k5zd=charter.net at contesting.com> On> Behalf Of Edward Sawyer> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 8:56 PM> To: peter.voelpel at t-online.de; cq-contest at contesting.com> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting>> IF you watch the video, you will see broadcasting of frequency on the> sidebar chats being displayed - self spotting. Using a chat room. And by> asking people on line to share the feed with their friends and get on and> work him - he is soliciting contacts by non-amateur means.>> Ed N1UR>>> From: Peter Voelpel [peter.voelpel at t-online.de] On Behalf Of> dj7ww at t-online.de [dj7ww at t-online.de]> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 8:24 PM> To: Edward Sawyer; cq-contest at contesting.com> Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting>> Ed,>> what numerous rules violations do you have in mind?> So far I am not aware of any.>> 73> Peter>> -----Original Message-----> From: CQ-Contest> [mailto:cq-contest-bounces+dj7ww=t-online.de at contesting.com] On Behalf Of> Edward Sawyer>> I would suggest that anyone curious take a listen to the live stream> recording on YouTube and look at the interaction Ray has with the "live chat> room" on his website with the contacts being made.>> Asking people to look for him on the Cluster to see where he is.>> Even as an assisted operation, it demonstrates numerous rules violations as> recorded.>> _______________________________________________> CQ-Contest mailing list> CQ-Contest at contesting.com> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest>> _______________________________________________> CQ-Contest mailing list> CQ-Contest at contesting.com> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest>> _______________________________________________> CQ-Contest mailing list> CQ-Contest at contesting.com> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest--This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.https://www.avast.com/antivirus_______________________________________________CQ-Contest mailing listCQ-Contest at contesting.comhttp://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest