[CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting

Fri Mar 13 21:29:03 EDT 2020

Sterling,

It's great to hear from a younger ham. That was extremely well said. I hope
more of the older and traditional (not always the same)  hams read and
reread what you said. BTW, at 76 I fall into the first category but not the
second.

For years I have been saying that to get younger people (anyone younger
than me) interested in ham radio and contesting in particular. I was elated
to see live scloreboards happen. It was a start. We needed something to get
us over the requirement to wait months for the results. Who has that
patience anymore? After I check out 3830, I loose interest.

We can't stop innovating. That's what ham radio is all about. Many of the
naysayers are also naysayers of the newer digital modes -- Mats won't allow
those dadgum FTs on his radio. Where would we be if we had listened to the
naysayers of SSB 70 years ago?

But, just as we put SSB in a separate category from CW, I think we need the
no-limit category added to all contests. Giving them a place to be,
legally, will encourage them to further innovate while separating them from
the naysayers and, more importantly, those who don't have the resources to
be so innovative.

73,
___________________
Stan Zawrotny, K4SBZ

Real radio bounces off the sky.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 3:08 PM Sterling Mann <kawfey at gmail.com> wrote:

> As a representative of the young people in ham radio, allowing ham radio to
> integrate with modern outlets like livestreaming only makes sense. There's
> always ways to exploit new technology and innovation, but its innovation in
> itself to do stuff to curtail exploitation. Throwing our hands up at the
> advent of new technology or novel ideas is not how ham radio works. That's
> really the antithesis of what hams do.
>
> I mean it's bewildering to me that some folk really believe that even the
> live contest score servers (https://contestonlinescore.com/,
> https://www.cqcontest.net/view/readscore.php) are detrimental. That's like
> saying there shouldn't be a scoreboard at a golf tournament. We're just
> flabbergasted it wasn't invented sooner. We're shocked that it still takes
> months before results are out. We're blown away that more hams aren't
> sharing their experiences online, and moreover lambast the idea, which has
> been a societal norm starting with GenX in the 2000s.
>
> It can't be very surprising why the next generation has been asking "is ham
> radio still relevan
> <
> https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03MwXvP65cDDgS1d6TrpEI0UV-giw%3A1584030724609&ei=BGRqXsHqJIP2-gTF-JjQBg&q=is+ham+radio+still+relevant&oq=is+ham+radio+&gs_l=psy-ab.3.2.0i67j0j0i67j0j0i67j0l5.23922.26559..28436...4.2..0.213.2972.0j15j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i273j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30j33i160.lTC7HWfdDE0
> >
> t" for the last few decades. It's why ham radio took a big turn from
> "wireless innovation" to "emergency communication" starting in the 70s and
> 80s since its innovation was being outpaced by cellphones and the internet.
> Nowadays if you're into ham radio, the general population believes you're
> either you're a prepper, a whacker, a CBer, or a nostalgic. Adapting
> contesting to the modern era is one way to change that.
>
> Things like livestreaming and eSports style shows with commentary, massive
> rates, remote stations, live scoreboards, realtime scoring, score
> handicaps, any-time video game style matchmaking, brackets and tournaments,
> popup rules with web app integration, gamification...all the cool stuff you
> hear at Contest University, Contest Dinner talks, contest forums, podcasts,
> videos, and other contesting visionaries like N0AX, K9CT, even Jeri
> Ellsworth AI6TK working on Tilt Five <https://www.tiltfive.com/>, are all
> together going to at least bring ham radio contesting up to modern day.
> It's just tough that so many of us are against these novel ideas because of
> possible exploitations, nostalgia, the status quo, that it's too hard, the
> "way it's always been," or any other excuse.
>
> And I'm not pointing any finger at anyone in the older generations either.
> I asked about this on reddit, which is predominantly younger people.
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/f45atk/would_anyone_watch_an_esports_style_ham_radio/
> .
> Even there it was met with utter "meh." Some yes, some maybe, some no, some
> VERY no. The only place where these ideas seem to resound is between a
> handful of visionaries, and throughout the young hams in the Young Amateurs
> Radio Club, of which I'm a part. So despite my visions of a brilliant ham
> radio contesting future I'm beginning to think it's just not meant to be
> with the current crop of radio amateurs. Still, I won't be backing down
> even if it's just Ria, Ray and a handful of others streaming our
> operations.
>
> -Sterling N0SSC
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 9:36 AM Mats Strandberg <sm6lrr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You nailed it Stan!
> >
> > I thought I was having fatigue from TI9A operation in the beginning of
> > February, and that should be the reason why I haven’t made a single QSO
> > as of yet since Feb 7:th.
> >
> > However a few weeks ago, I was analyzing my impressions during that
> > expedition and afterwards.
> >
> > So much new innovative crap appeared in relation to that operation, all
> > generated from modern inventions and so called development of Ham Radio:
> >
> > Remote Ham Radio cheating (lots of stations using NA commercial remote
> > stations to facilitate contacts on bands at times they otherwise would
> not
> > have done.
> >
> > Emails and Facebook messages complaining that people were wrongly logged
> > and requested us to change callsign, time and band, to finally get a new
> > one - or a new band slot.
> >
> > Whining that their beloved fantastic new innovative DX-mode did not
> > generate any QSOs due to wrong messages from TI9A - or no synchronization
> > of times (as we had no internet and just GPS-USB device). Please be 100%
> > sure though, I personally refused that new innovative software to be
> > installed on my computer - or to let FTx be sent through my radio....
> >
> > Attempts to bribe us with money, so we put them in the log, even though
> we
> > clearly did not work them.
> >
> > I can continue more, but refrain from doing so.
> >
> > Ham Radio has got very strange in the past years, and my own very
> personal
> > conclusion is that I do not find this exaggerated innovation of Ham Radio
> > good at all.
> >
> > Live streaming is another invented stupidity of Ham Radio that apparently
> > are supported by some, as well as probably other innovative development
> of
> > Ham Radio stated above...
> >
> > My decision, if someone wonders why RM2D is not active anymore, is to
> take
> > a indefinite timeout from Ham Radio, spend time with my family and my
> other
> > hobbies, contemplate on whether Ham Radio was completely destroyed by the
> > euphoria of fantastic innovation or not.
> >
> > As it feels now, as a result of all this so called development of Ham
> > Radio... I am feeling completely comfortable being outside this new
> circus
> > show.
> >
> > I might change my mind and come back to the hobby one day - but guys and
> > gals, don’t expect it.
> >
> > You who love distorting Ham Radio with all kinds of innovative whistles
> and
> > bells, please continue. I am proud not to part of that so called
> > development. I embrace traditional Ham Radio where Ham Spirit prevailed -
> > and no excessive technological innovation euphoria or
> power/cluster/remote
> > cheating set the new standard.
> >
> > Anyone who still wish to keep contact with me or meet in real life, to
> > discuss Real Ham Radio, my email in QRZ.COM is still valid. Maybe we go
> > fishing instead?
> >
> > 73 de RM2D (Mats)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 03:03, Stan Stockton <wa5rtg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Live streaming, whether heavily advertised or not, should not be
> allowed
> > in
> > > my opinion..  This gives stations advantage in making the contact to
> the
> > > primary benefit of the one who is streaming. Not to mention the fact
> that
> > > many will come on specifically to hear their own signal via internet.
> I
> > > say it should be nipped in the bud and the bud is the live streaming.
> > >
> > > 73... Stan, K5GO/ZF9CW
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 9:30 AM Edward Sawyer <EdwardS at sbelectronics.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Some of you may not be aware of an interesting and different even
> that
> > > > happened last weekend.
> > > >
> > > > W2RE of well known RHR fame, decided to not only provide live
> streaming
> > > of
> > > > his contesting effort, but tied it into the activity he has been
> doing
> > > > since early January which is fully integrating the on air DX activity
> > > into
> > > > Facebook and youtube channel streaming.  Ray has done a wonderful job
> > of
> > > > integrating social media with HF on air activity as part of promoting
> > RHR
> > > > and DXing in general.  You cant argue that this benefits the hobby in
> > > > general.
> > > >
> > > > However, the rules of the contest state that "contacts cannot be
> > > solicited
> > > > by non-amateur means".  Examples are typically given but those
> examples
> > > are
> > > > not exhaustive.  The intent of the rule, I believe, is that you
> should
> > > have
> > > > people calling you by the normal discovery process that all of us
> use.
> > > Not
> > > > a special method no one else is using.
> > > >
> > > > Ray, to his credit, was not showing his transmit frequency ion the
> > video.
> > > > And I personally believe there was no intention of using this
> > additional
> > > > channel to gain an advantage.  At all.  However, if you look at the
> > > > activity generated on the facebook page - a couple of million hits
> > since
> > > > early January (bravo Ray) - its hard for me to rationalize that there
> > is
> > > > not a direct pick up of Qs based on this parallel activity.  Casuals,
> > > which
> > > > are a huge part of running up the Q totals in any major DX contest,
> may
> > > be
> > > > listening to the channel and say, I wonder how loud I am verses these
> > > other
> > > > guys Ray is working.  And look up on the cluster to find Ray's
> > frequency
> > > > and give a call to hear themselves.  That is exactly "soliciting a
> > > contact
> > > > by non-amateur means".  Not overtly - like give me a call if you are
> > > > watching - but by "advertising" and letting the rest happen on its
> own.
> > > >
> > > > I think it is a wonderful idea on its own.  But it does not compete
> > > fairly
> > > > with those just playing the game by the rules as intended.
> > > >
> > > > CQ WW used to have an unlimited class, maybe they still do.  Maybe we
> > > need
> > > > an unlimited class to promote this "multi channel" contesting.  But
> > > mixing
> > > > it up with normal contesting just doesn't feel right to me.
> > > >
> > > > What do others think?
> > > >
> > > > Ed  N1UR
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
> >
> >
> > <http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest>
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 03:03, Stan Stockton <wa5rtg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Live streaming, whether heavily advertised or not, should not be
> allowed
> > in
> > > my opinion..  This gives stations advantage in making the contact to
> the
> > > primary benefit of the one who is streaming. Not to mention the fact
> that
> > > many will come on specifically to hear their own signal via internet.
> I
> > > say it should be nipped in the bud and the bud is the live streaming.
> > >
> > > 73... Stan, K5GO/ZF9CW
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 9:30 AM Edward Sawyer <EdwardS at sbelectronics.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Some of you may not be aware of an interesting and different even
> that
> > > > happened last weekend.
> > > >
> > > > W2RE of well known RHR fame, decided to not only provide live
> streaming
> > > of
> > > > his contesting effort, but tied it into the activity he has been
> doing
> > > > since early January which is fully integrating the on air DX activity
> > > into
> > > > Facebook and youtube channel streaming.  Ray has done a wonderful job
> > of
> > > > integrating social media with HF on air activity as part of promoting
> > RHR
> > > > and DXing in general.  You cant argue that this benefits the hobby in
> > > > general.
> > > >
> > > > However, the rules of the contest state that "contacts cannot be
> > > solicited
> > > > by non-amateur means".  Examples are typically given but those
> examples
> > > are
> > > > not exhaustive.  The intent of the rule, I believe, is that you
> should
> > > have
> > > > people calling you by the normal discovery process that all of us
> use.
> > > Not
> > > > a special method no one else is using.
> > > >
> > > > Ray, to his credit, was not showing his transmit frequency ion the
> > video.
> > > > And I personally believe there was no intention of using this
> > additional
> > > > channel to gain an advantage.  At all.  However, if you look at the
> > > > activity generated on the facebook page - a couple of million hits
> > since
> > > > early January (bravo Ray) - its hard for me to rationalize that there
> > is
> > > > not a direct pick up of Qs based on this parallel activity.  Casuals,
> > > which
> > > > are a huge part of running up the Q totals in any major DX contest,
> may
> > > be
> > > > listening to the channel and say, I wonder how loud I am verses these
> > > other
> > > > guys Ray is working.  And look up on the cluster to find Ray's
> > frequency
> > > > and give a call to hear themselves.  That is exactly "soliciting a
> > > contact
> > > > by non-amateur means".  Not overtly - like give me a call if you are
> > > > watching - but by "advertising" and letting the rest happen on its
> own.
> > > >
> > > > I think it is a wonderful idea on its own.  But it does not compete
> > > fairly
> > > > with those just playing the game by the rules as intended.
> > > >
> > > > CQ WW used to have an unlimited class, maybe they still do.  Maybe we
> > > need
> > > > an unlimited class to promote this "multi channel" contesting.  But
> > > mixing
> > > > it up with normal contesting just doesn't feel right to me.
> > > >
> > > > What do others think?
> > > >
> > > > Ed  N1UR
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
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>