[CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots

Ken K6MR k6mr at outlook.com
Thu Nov 4 11:57:22 EDT 2021 

Steve:

It’s not that I’m against technology.  I love all those things you mentioned EXCEPT the packet spots.  I just think that if we are communicating by radio we should use the radio to find, copy, and complete the Q by radio.  Whether I write it down or type it into a computer is a non-sequitur.  Or solid state radios, electronic keying, etc.  Those are just modern replacements that make operating easier.  But when you have everyone else in the world feeding you info about who is on the band and their frequency, you have replaced the radio for those things that should be done by radio.

That’s why I’m such a fan of Sprints.  Just lots of “Boys and Their Radios”  (to paraphrase K0HB, allowing for a few of those of the fairer sex).  When Rusty and friends invented the Sprints they were really thinking all radio, all the time.

But to each his own.  I know the technology can’t be put back in the bottle.  I don’t think anyone is less of a contester for using packet spots.  I just like it when it is radio only.  Think WRTC.  Lots of technology, but the ops are 100% radio.  Although you could argue that everyone, assisted or not still gets “assistance” from the spotting network whether they want it or not.  Sure it makes for higher scores, but is it really radio?

73 es gud dx (however you find it).

Ken K6MR

From: Steve Dyer (W1SRD) via CQ-Contest<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 05:46
To: cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots

Gosh. Ken, Jim and Hans make me wonder if I can ever be a *real*
contester. I've only ever known computer logging, solid state radios,
packet spots, electronic keying, etc. The "good old days" must've really
been something.

Steve
W1SRD


On 11/3/2021 16:32, Ken K6MR wrote:
> +1   Those were the days….
>
> Ken K6MR
>
> From: Jim Neiger<mailto:n6tj at sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 12:08
> To: cq-contest at contesting.com<mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots
>
> Oh the wonderful world of spotting.
>
> Again  relegated to the Department of Be Careful What You Ask For.  And
> fondly remembering the years when all were able to 1) find their own
> DX,  and 2) actually could copy calls without assistance.
>
> Very 73,
>
> Jim Neiger   N6TJ
>
> 66 years of contest operating UN-Assisted.
>
>      KH7M (this past weekend where I was self-spotted at least once)
> KH7M ( upcoming CQ WW CW).
>
>
>
> On 11/2/2021 6:05 PM, Randy Thompson wrote:
>> Not sure self-spotting is the solution to the actual problem...
>>
>> Someone spammed the cluster system with cleverly designed spots that spoofed the sender's callsign.  As someone who has been harassed by this method of fake spots, it is frustrating.  I don't think people quite realize how unprotected the cluster network is.  Anyone can use any callsign to spot anything at any time.
>>
>> The cluster is not the banking system, but just as we need passwords for every other aspect of our on-line lives, it may be time for the cluster network to adopt the same.  Even if it is just for originating spots.  This of course means that spots traveling from one node to another will also need to carry some form of verification or validation of the originator.
>>
>> Randy K5ZD
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: CQ-Contest <cq-contest-bounces+k5zd=outlook.com at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Stanley Zawrotny
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 9:04 AM
>> To: John Dorr <cqk1ar at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Steve Dyer <w1srd at yahoo.com>; CQ-Contest <cq-contest at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Spoofed Self spots
>>
>> The solution has already been proposed—allow self-spotting. Put SSB on a par with the CW RBN. No messy, long-drawn out technical effort required. Just say that it’s OK.
>>
>> Stan, K4SBZ
>>
>> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
>>
>>> On Nov 2, 2021, at 8:43 AM, John Dorr <cqk1ar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good morning,
>>>
>>> Just so everyone knows, the CQWW Contest Committee is taking this
>>> issue very seriously and is investigating the issue in great detail
>>> via some very smart network guys on my team. These spots will have no
>>> impact on anyone's score. However, as always, we will continue to
>>> review other cases where self-spotting is obvious and beyond what has
>>> occurred in this particular situation.
>>>
>>> 73, John, K1AR
>>> CQ WW Contest Director
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 8:03 AM Steve Dyer via CQ-Contest <
>>>> cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I really hope we don't have to start authenticating to clusters. The
>>>> hassle to the many global users seems to far exceed the gravity of
>>>> the problem. Every piece of software that uses clusters would have to
>>>> implement whatever scheme was used. It would be a mess.
>>>> Steve
>>>> W1SRD
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/1/2021 18:10, K3IB Peter wrote:
>>>>> Identifying bad guys by IP addresses is not a thing any more.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can change my home IP address at will.  Good luck getting Comcast
>>>>> to
>>>> tell you what IP address was on my router 3 days ago.
>>>>> I can also attack from dozens of countries around the world by using
>>>>> one
>>>> of any number of inexpensive VPN services.
>>>>> The best way forward is for clusters to start authenticating their
>>>>> users
>>>> with a simple, widely available mechanism like SQRL.
>>>>> -peter K3IB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> IIRC, maybe 20 years ago Dave, K1TTT did some pioneering work in
>>>>>> identifying self-spotters, I think through the use of IP addresses
>>>>>> It may be that the same techniques can be used today - or maybe
>>>>>> they can at least demonstrate that these were *not* self-spots. Dave?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>>>>> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network web server
>>>>>> at<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbeta.reversebeacon.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115056396%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=6V7wNvb8ozUbD2knfydlnkBP57qLOQHvOh9JKc1%2FV5A%3D&reserved=0>.
>>>>>> For spots, please use your favorite "retail" DX cluster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/1/2021 2:46 PM, Michael Walker wrote:
>>>>>>> Wow, what a surprise.  I just went and looked at my cluster and
>>>>>>> sure enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was running unassisted and I see that I spotted myself twice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is not good and the only reason is for someone to ensure that
>>>>>>> the cluster logging can't be trusted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike va3mw
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> VA3MW-7>
>>>>>>>      7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2319Z
>>>>>>> <VA3MW>
>>>>>>>      7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2313Z
>>>>>>> <WT8WV>
>>>>>>>      7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2305Z  LSB
>>>>>>> <N2YO>
>>>>>>>      7214.9  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2252Z  LSB
>>>>>>> <N4SS>
>>>>>>>      7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2249Z
>>>>>>>     <W3MR>
>>>>>>>      7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2244Z  LSB
>>>>>>> <WU9D>
>>>>>>>      7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2237Z
>>>>>>>     <N3GT>
>>>>>>>      7215.0  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2235Z  LSB
>>>>>>>     <AC3LZ>
>>>>>>>      7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2211Z
>>>>>>> <VA3MW>
>>>>>>>      7215.1  VA3MW       31-Oct-2021 2205Z
>>>>>>> <KE1IH>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 1:39 PM Dave K2XR via CQ-Contest <
>>>>>>> cq-contest at contesting.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> GM contesters.  Hope you all are resting well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the FRC chat room we have been discussing the abundance of
>>>>>>>> apparent self spots during the contest.  Many of our participants
>>>>>>>> who run had their callsigns spoofed and spots of themselves made. It seems to have
>>>>>>>> happened to enough of us that the question was posed...   'Was it just
>>>>>>>> FRC that was targeted, or was it all contesters? "
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looking on this reflector as well as the 3830 reflector, it
>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>> take
>>>>>>>> long to see that it wasn't just FRC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fl
>>>>>>>> ists.contesting.com%2Farchives%2F%2Fhtml%2F3830%2F2021-11%2Fmsg00
>>>>>>>> 174.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4c5816c8e7134f641c9f08d99e24c9e2%7
>>>>>>>> C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637714703115066391%7C
>>>>>>>> Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI
>>>>>>>> 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ivIW9Nn1XPNTt6BxeKNlN5Jf
>>>>>>>> 5Co0%2FpE9co46pVpc0Ps%3D&reserved=0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Curious to know who else out there was targeted.  The were about
>>>>>>>> 10 cases in the chat room I was in this AM, and suspect it might
>>>>>>>> have
>>>> been
>>>>>>>> a huge problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there a way for the sysops to track down the origin ?     I would
>>>>>>>> think so, but am not positive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would be great to nail the perpetrator, and some of us are
>>>> demanding
>>>>>>>> it if it is all possible.  Kind of ruins everything for some.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Dave   K2XR      Frankford Radio Club
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
>>>>>>>> %3D%7C1000&sdata=Cy16cmjTfMGAw4g7sIS43OEt442CdajENE29TjzVadU%
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>>>>>>>>
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