[CQ-Contest] QRZ Button
Drew Vonada-Smith
drew at whisperingwoods.org
Sun Jun 4 12:15:56 EDT 2023
Contesters,
I think using QRZ to look up QSO exchange details is pretty clearly out of bounds for many if not most contests. Paul is "the guy" and his reference is clear:
PROH.3. Confirmation of any contacts during or after the contest by use of any non-amateur radio means such as telephone, text messaging, websites, email, or social media.
For those saying this this is no different than call history files, you are at least partially correct - I get it. However, we as individuals don't set the rules, the sponsor does. If you want this practice to OK by the rules, petition for it. I am very much against it.
I for one think the contest is supposed to be on the air, and one is supposed to copy the exchange. I'd like CHF files (and spot exchange data for that matter) not to exist, but I can't control that. If you use crutches, you simply are the poorer for it.
The fact that something can be done or already exists does not make it a good idea. Let's be actual operators and not radio-linked video game players.
73,
Drew K3PA
________________________________
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (Pete Smith N4ZR)
2. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (George Fremin III)
3. Re: punch qrz lookup button during a contest...? (Paul Bourque)
4. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (Richard DiDonna)
5. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (Ron Notarius W3WN)
6. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (rjairam at gmail.com)
7. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (David Gilbert)
8. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (David Gilbert)
9. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (Hans Brakob)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 08:50:23 -0400
From: Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr at gmail.com>
To: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
Message-ID: <62f5b37a-6deb-afd9-7e7a-df74beaa056f at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
But then,? why are call history files or super check partial files not
illegal?? For that matter, cluster-derived spot information (even if
only the callsign) isn't derived from on-the-air activity by the
recipient. Seems to me like this is a bridge long crossed.
73, Pete N4ZR
On 6/3/2023 5:29 AM, Stanley Zawrotny wrote:
> Looking up a callsign on QRZ can be considered assisted if the contest uses any of the information provided as part of an exchange; name or state are the most common, counties are used in state QSO parties.
>
> Stan, K4SBZ
>
> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
>
>> On Jun 3, 2023, at 1:57 AM, Doug Bates<kv4zy.1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?Art,
>> I don't claim to know all, but it strikes me as strange that a callsign
>> lookup on any database could be against any rules. The nearest thing I can
>> think of that may be anywhere near related in the rules of some contests is
>> forbidding "Assisted" where contesters follow a cluster to find contacts
>> that are currently reported as being on. Callsign lookup does not seem to
>> me to be anywhere close to using a cluster to find contacts. But what do I
>> know:)
>> 73 & God Bless
>> De KV4ZY
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Art Boyars<artboyars at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
>>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window. I
>>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
>>>
>>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other online
>>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
>>>
>>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using SCP
>>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
>>>
>>> What do you wise people think?
>>>
>>> 73, art K3KU
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 08:47:22 -0500
From: George Fremin III <geoiii at kkn.net>
To: Raymond Benny <rayn6vr at gmail.com>
Cc: Doug Bates <kv4zy.1 at gmail.com>, Art Boyars <artboyars at gmail.com>,
CQ-Contest Reflector <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
Message-ID: <E1DD0440-EEA2-412B-B608-D2246376F818 at kkn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I think that using QRZ as a source to attempt to correct or confirm information being received during a contest to be way beyond what you should be doing. And while some of that might not be against the rules in a contest (written) I would suggest that it goes against the sprit of the contest.
And saying it is ok for assisted or multiop categories is incorrect. Esp the part about fixing calls or log data after the contact by using outside sources and I would consider those sources to include you using a callbook or database to look up this info in your shack (ie. Not limited to online sources).
This sort of practice extends to ?log washing? post contest - using data sources or software to find and correct errors you made in the contest. This is just wrong and you should not be doing it. One of the goals you should have in a contest is to operate in a way that you make as few errors as possible. If you are unsure, ask the other person during your on the air contacts and make your corrections based on that on the air interaction. Contests are you test your skill at being a radio operator. Not your skills in post contest log fixing or data mining or whatever.
We all make mistakes. I often make more than many of my peers. But so be it - looking at my log checking reports can be painful to my ego. But, you can use those reports to see what sort of errors you are making and when you are making them - and then you can learn from that and work on doing better next time.
I do see that many are saying that they really see no difference between some source like QRZ and the SCP databases. And I will have to agree. I have never liked the SCP database use. I have felt that it is wrong.
Until a few years ago, I never used it. I did contests and did well in contests without using any sort of callsign database. But I gave in a few years ago - as it was clear that it was a loosing battle on my part. And once I started using it I was more convinced than ever that it provides an advantage. One of the many skills you can learn is callsign recognition - and the callsign databases dilute that skill.
As far as other information from some of these databases - that can be very problematic and might hurt your score more than it helps it. Over the years there have been various groups / clubs that have really pushed for the use of these databases that contain more than call signs. For example in the ARRL Sweepstakes contest some folks are using databases that contain callsign and check and section information that pre-fills the exchange field during the contact. We can see folks that use these in the log checking after the contest by some errors they make that can only be explained by the use of databases. I can see this from my on my own on the air activity when folks challenge what I send them as an exchange. I have even had operators argue with me during the contact that their ?database? has something other than what I am saying so I must be wrong. I also see it when I get a QSL card.
Examples:
For years in the SS contests - N5RZ would come do CW from my station - he used his check.
I would do SSB and use my check. In both contests folks would put my check in for his contacts and his check for mine. My check is 76 and I think RZ is 67 or 69. It was very obvious from our log checking reports whom was using databases and not doing a good job of copying what they hear on the air.
My ?callbook? (mailing address) is in Austin, TX / Travis County / EM10 etc.
My operating location is Johnson City, TX / Blanoc County / EM00.
VHF contest LCRs have lots of folks putting EM10 for my grid - and losing those contacts / mults
I get cards from folks thanking me for a new grid / county etc. - that is not were I was operating from.
I usually have several folks argue with me about my check in SS.
In the NAQP I usually use ED as my name. (Long story) In the last NAQP I did I had a guy keep saying that QRZ says my name is George. I kept telling him my name is ED - this went on for several minutes.
Whatever.
My advice is do the contest on the air.
Do not use databases or callbacks or the extension of that - post contest log correcting.
You will be a better op, you will learn to listen to the radio and not to data on your screen.
> On Jun 2, 2023, at 10:51 PM, Raymond Benny <rayn6vr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Your log is supplied to reflect what you copied in real time!
> In most contests, using outside sources to correct a log is illegal.
>
> Ray,
> N6VR/W7YA
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using SCP
>>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
>>>
>>> What do you wise people think?
>>>
>>> 73, art K3KU
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 12:30:20 -0400
From: Paul Bourque <pbourque at gmail.com>
To: Mike Smith VE9AA <ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca>
Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] punch qrz lookup button during a contest...?
Message-ID:
<CAOsOLJ+cbQ3Bvk0PDQYw7=3SLDBRdtkyXkN-HLJSSExuo5vtYA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Good afternoon,
I'd say that looking up a call to verify that you copied it correctly, or
looking it up because you were missing part of the exchange (if it was say,
a state, or ARRL section) is not allowed under ARRL Contest Rules. Copying
the call and exchange correctly over the air is part of the contest.
PROH.3. Confirmation of any contacts during or after the contest by use of
any non-amateur radio means such as telephone, text messaging, websites,
email, or social media.
73,
Paul Bourque, N1SFE, ARRL Contest Program Manager
(please reply to N1SFE at ARRL.ORG)
On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Mike Smith VE9AA <ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
> (moved from n1mm logger groups.io page)
>
>
>
> Do you feel it's perfectly OK to use the QRZ lookup button in N1MMLogger+
> (and likely other loggers) to provide fills during a contest, say if you
> missed the exchange during the QSO?
>
>
>
> What about after the contest, before your log is sent in?
>
>
>
> I am talking about most of the major/mainstream contests. CQWW, CQWPX, ARRL
> DX, NAQP, ARRL SS (you get the idea)
>
>
>
> Assisted or non assisted.
>
>
>
> I'll reserve my comments for later in the thread so as not to possibly sway
> comments one way or another.
>
>
>
> Discuss.
>
>
>
> 73
>
>
>
> Mike VE9AA
>
>
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
>
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 12:35:25 -0400
From: Richard DiDonna <richnn3w at gmail.com>
To: Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr at gmail.com>
Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
Message-ID: <349FD996-0173-4F63-950F-E40D241A8F7E at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Well how far ?up? or back do we want to take this. How about N1MM or Wintest that prefill 25 when you work a JA in the exchange field. Or how about a prefill in NAQP that fills in Tom MD when you work K3AJ.
You could argue that they?re all guesses - which could be wrong.
QRZ data or ULS data is presumed to be correct.
I think looking up callsign data from the licensing authority during or after the contest is a bridge too far.
73 Rich NN3W
> On Jun 3, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?But then, why are call history files or super check partial files not illegal? For that matter, cluster-derived spot information (even if only the callsign) isn't derived from on-the-air activity by the recipient. Seems to me like this is a bridge long crossed.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
>> On 6/3/2023 5:29 AM, Stanley Zawrotny wrote:
>> Looking up a callsign on QRZ can be considered assisted if the contest uses any of the information provided as part of an exchange; name or state are the most common, counties are used in state QSO parties.
>>
>> Stan, K4SBZ
>>
>> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
>>
>>>> On Jun 3, 2023, at 1:57 AM, Doug Bates<kv4zy.1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Art,
>>> I don't claim to know all, but it strikes me as strange that a callsign
>>> lookup on any database could be against any rules. The nearest thing I can
>>> think of that may be anywhere near related in the rules of some contests is
>>> forbidding "Assisted" where contesters follow a cluster to find contacts
>>> that are currently reported as being on. Callsign lookup does not seem to
>>> me to be anywhere close to using a cluster to find contacts. But what do I
>>> know:)
>>> 73 & God Bless
>>> De KV4ZY
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Art Boyars<artboyars at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
>>>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window. I
>>>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
>>>>
>>>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other online
>>>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using SCP
>>>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
>>>>
>>>> What do you wise people think?
>>>>
>>>> 73, art K3KU
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 12:58:54 -0400
From: Ron Notarius W3WN <wn3vaw at verizon.net>
To: Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr at gmail.com>
Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
Message-ID: <2B210D65-7011-404A-9B1A-4B3C9BBC9472 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
It comes down to ethical operating behavior, Pete.
And as you and I both know, from many, many years on this reflector, there is a severe disagreement amongst many vocal participants about what is and is not ethical.
(and I say ?ethical? simply because something is ?legal? or permitted under the rules doesn?t mean it?s right. A discussion for another time)
So, for example, I may choose to not use SCP. That doesn?t mean I?m right - or wrong. Whether or not you choose to do so is up to you. If you?re comfortable with it, and do not believe your use is against the rules, who am I to say otherwise? Even if I?m not comfortable with it, for me.
73, Ron W3WN
> On Jun 3, 2023, at 8:50 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But then, why are call history files or super check partial files not illegal? For that matter, cluster-derived spot information (even if only the callsign) isn't derived from on-the-air activity by the recipient. Seems to me like this is a bridge long crossed.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
>> On 6/3/2023 5:29 AM, Stanley Zawrotny wrote:
>> Looking up a callsign on QRZ can be considered assisted if the contest uses any of the information provided as part of an exchange; name or state are the most common, counties are used in state QSO parties.
>>
>> Stan, K4SBZ
>>
>> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
>>
>>> On Jun 3, 2023, at 1:57 AM, Doug Bates<kv4zy.1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Art,
>>> I don't claim to know all, but it strikes me as strange that a callsign
>>> lookup on any database could be against any rules. The nearest thing I can
>>> think of that may be anywhere near related in the rules of some contests is
>>> forbidding "Assisted" where contesters follow a cluster to find contacts
>>> that are currently reported as being on. Callsign lookup does not seem to
>>> me to be anywhere close to using a cluster to find contacts. But what do I
>>> know:)
>>> 73 & God Bless
>>> De KV4ZY
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Art Boyars<artboyars at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
>>>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window. I
>>>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
>>>>
>>>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other online
>>>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using SCP
>>>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
>>>>
>>>> What do you wise people think?
>>>>
>>>> 73, art K3KU
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 13:07:27 -0400
From: "rjairam at gmail.com" <rjairam at gmail.com>
To: Art Boyars <artboyars at gmail.com>
Cc: CQ-Contest Reflector <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
Message-ID:
<CAMCyBs5wup2OMq2uZYEKvYZMZmm7v3WiHWJD7E8t8LJ1SgSHSQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
SCP only helps with the callsign. While purists would rather not have even
that, it?s a far cry from getting someone?s zone, grid square, state etc
from a callsign database.
Ria
N2RJ
On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24 PM Art Boyars <artboyars at gmail.com> wrote:
> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window. I
> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
>
> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other online
> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
>
> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using SCP
> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
>
> What do you wise people think?
>
> 73, art K3KU
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 10:20:50 -0700
From: David Gilbert <ab7echo at gmail.com>
To: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
Message-ID: <68f02c47-d6bc-81c2-9ac7-d0a8677c136c at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Yet people share compiled "Call History" files that are unique to a
particular contest and provide all of the exchange information for that
contest.? They aren't 100% reliable since people change names or
locations, but if you got the callsign correct? ... or even pretty close
... you have a very good chance of being provided the exchange
information without having to copy it.? In fact without EVER having
previously copying it in a previous contest as long as somebody who
contributed their log to the compiled file did.? In my opinion, that's
an "external source".
That's why I have never used a Call History file myself.? Just to prove
what was possible, though, I once downloaded the entire U.S. and
Canadian ham radio license databases and cross referenced them with the
downloadable logs of various big gun stations from various contests.? I
loaded all the information into a large spreadsheet, moved some stuff
around to get the right sequence for the data fields, and then exported
it all to create a very large "Call History" file that included every
ham in the U.S. and Canada.? It loaded into N1MM just fine.? It probably
was only 95% accurate for location and maybe 80% accurate for names
since people using nicknames in contests, but in my opinion using it (I
didn't) would have been an effective cheat for certain contests.
73,
Dave? AB7E
On 6/2/2023 8:51 PM, Raymond Benny wrote:
> Your log is supplied to reflect what you copied in real time!
> In most contests, using outside sources to correct a log is illegal.
>
> Ray,
> N6VR/W7YA
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023, 6:57 PM Doug Bates <kv4zy.1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Art,
>> I don't claim to know all, but it strikes me as strange that a callsign
>> lookup on any database could be against any rules. The nearest thing I can
>> think of that may be anywhere near related in the rules of some contests is
>> forbidding "Assisted" where contesters follow a cluster to find contacts
>> that are currently reported as being on. Callsign lookup does not seem to
>> me to be anywhere close to using a cluster to find contacts. But what do I
>> know:)
>> 73 & God Bless
>> De KV4ZY
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Art Boyars <artboyars at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
>>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window. I
>>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
>>>
>>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other
>> online
>>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
>>>
>>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using SCP
>>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
>>>
>>> What do you wise people think?
>>>
>>> 73, art K3KU
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 10:58:07 -0700
From: David Gilbert <ab7echo at gmail.com>
To: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
Message-ID: <d6f65f77-10c4-514e-fed3-cf51b7b520a9 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
A call history file comprised of the combination of the prior logs of
many other contesters (which is readily available and used by many) is
exactly that, though.? Lots of folks excuse it by saying that it isn't
100% reliable and that you still have to be able to verify the info ...
but if it didn't provide actual help people wouldn't use it, and just
because an attempt to cheat isn't 100% successful it doesn't mean it
wasn't an attempt to cheat.
Now before anyone gets all bent out of shape by my terminology, I will
have to say that every contest sponsor clearly knows that call history
files are being used and to my knowledge none (at least of the majors)
have ever come out against it.? That makes them tacitly approved in
spite of the wording of their rules, and is therefore not actually cheating.
But I still don't like it and I still don't use one ... not even one
comprised strictly of my own prior logs.
73,
Dave?? AB7E
On 6/3/2023 10:07 AM, rjairam at gmail.com wrote:
> SCP only helps with the callsign. While purists would rather not have even
> that, it?s a far cry from getting someone?s zone, grid square, state etc
> from a callsign database.
>
> Ria
> N2RJ
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24 PM Art Boyars <artboyars at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window. I
>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
>>
>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other online
>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
>>
>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using SCP
>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
>>
>> What do you wise people think?
>>
>> 73, art K3KU
>> _______________________________________________
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>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
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>>
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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 18:33:30 +0000
From: Hans Brakob <kzerohb at gmail.com>
To: Richard DiDonna <richnn3w at gmail.com>, Pete Smith N4ZR
<pete.n4zr at gmail.com>
Cc: "cq-contest at contesting.com" <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
Message-ID:
<MN2PR04MB6688EDCECD0CE8F18501537CF14FA at MN2PR04MB6688.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Let?s take it back to ground zero. No pre-fills at all, not even zones.
One of the laziest of all contests is CQWWCW. I suspect that a fellow could run up a pretty decent score in that test in silent mode (don?t copy anything). Just click the spots and accept the prefills from N1MM.
73, de Hans, K?HB
?Just a Boy and his Radio??
________________________________
From: CQ-Contest <cq-contest-bounces+kzerohb=gmail.com at contesting.com> on behalf of Richard DiDonna <richnn3w at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 3, 2023 11:35:25 AM
To: Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr at gmail.com>
Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
Well how far ?up? or back do we want to take this. How about N1MM or Wintest that prefill 25 when you work a JA in the exchange field. Or how about a prefill in NAQP that fills in Tom MD when you work K3AJ.
You could argue that they?re all guesses - which could be wrong.
QRZ data or ULS data is presumed to be correct.
I think looking up callsign data from the licensing authority during or after the contest is a bridge too far.
73 Rich NN3W
> On Jun 3, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?But then, why are call history files or super check partial files not illegal? For that matter, cluster-derived spot information (even if only the callsign) isn't derived from on-the-air activity by the recipient. Seems to me like this is a bridge long crossed.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
>> On 6/3/2023 5:29 AM, Stanley Zawrotny wrote:
>> Looking up a callsign on QRZ can be considered assisted if the contest uses any of the information provided as part of an exchange; name or state are the most common, counties are used in state QSO parties.
>>
>> Stan, K4SBZ
>>
>> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
>>
>>>> On Jun 3, 2023, at 1:57 AM, Doug Bates<kv4zy.1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Art,
>>> I don't claim to know all, but it strikes me as strange that a callsign
>>> lookup on any database could be against any rules. The nearest thing I can
>>> think of that may be anywhere near related in the rules of some contests is
>>> forbidding "Assisted" where contesters follow a cluster to find contacts
>>> that are currently reported as being on. Callsign lookup does not seem to
>>> me to be anywhere close to using a cluster to find contacts. But what do I
>>> know:)
>>> 73 & God Bless
>>> De KV4ZY
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Art Boyars<artboyars at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
>>>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window. I
>>>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
>>>>
>>>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other online
>>>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using SCP
>>>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
>>>>
>>>> What do you wise people think?
>>>>
>>>> 73, art K3KU
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
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End of CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 246, Issue 3
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