-----Forwarded Message-----
From: Marshall-K5QE
Sent: Sep 21, 2017 10:32 PM
To: John Kludt
Subject: Re: One Additional Comment on Your Digital "How To"

Hi John....what you have described is the "acid test" to see if you have a HF centric newbie or a real VHFer.....HI.  Somehow, the HFers have decided that if you don't send 73 the contact is not complete.  I don't know of any VHFer that thinks that way.  This is something that we are going to have to "educate" the new stations about.  I don't know how to do that....I will mention this problem to the ARRL guy.....

In the VHF world, as far as I know, when one station receives the RRR, the contact is done.  However, the stations sending the RRR does not know that, so that is why the 73.  Because of the way I operate(DXpedition or contest), I am almost always the guy sending the RRR.  Rule 7, subparagraph 3, if I send RRR, you better get it.  This is somewhat a joke, but there is a lot of truth in it too.  Part of this works because I run at least 1KW(even for portable operations, like the Falklands and Zone2) and 4 medium length antennas or more.  As you know, the contest shack is 8 x long yagis and full power. 

When I am in a contest OR on a DXpedition, I send RRR and I look for your 73.  Of course, if I see the 73, then we are done.  IF I don't see it and if signals were strong, I go on to the next station.  If signals are weaker(a judgement call), then I might send a second RRR, but then I  go on to the next station in line(unless there are some really extenuating circumstances).  I don't have time to waste repeating RRR again and again and again.  IF the station has not received the RRR after I have moved on, then he can request a re-run on the EME-1 page.  During casual operations, none of this matters.  Just send the RRR several times and look on the EME-1 page. 

SEVERAL others have mentioned this exact same thing.  VHFers will say the a QSO is done when one side receives the RRR....apparently the HF centric guys do not believe that.  This is another education thing.  The standards are just different between VHF and HF.  I may be wrong here, but I think I recall seeing something like this in a EU Handbook.  I found this in the IARU Handbook 7.5.1.pdf, page 89.  Link is
https://www.iaru-r1.org/index.php/documents/func-startdown/722/

FROM IARU HANDBOOK
7.2.3 Valid Contacts
A valid contact is one where each operator has copied both call signs, the report and a confirmation
that the other operator has done the same. This confirmation may either be an "R" preceding the
report or a string of three consecutive "rogers” (RRR).
END OF HANDBOOK ENTRY

Note that there is NO requirement for the 73--it certainly does not hurt anything, but 73 is NOT required. 
73 Marshall K5QE

On 9/21/2017 1:13 PM, John Kludt wrote:

Marshall,

First I thought your paper on using digital modes in contests was spot on.  Switching back and forth between Contest Mode and Funny Number mode to complete a Q was less than fun in the recent VHF Contest.

The one thing you did not address and I am curious to know your through on is the need for both stations to exchange "73".  I have noticed you do not do that. When you send me your "RRR" and I send "73" you are on to the next QSO.  Given your very clear statement on not proceeding to the next message till last received it seems to me the correct sequence at the end is:

1.  I send "RRR"
2. You send "73"
3. If I receive your "73" we are done.  If I do not receive your "73" I send my "RRR" again.  That is your clue to send your "73" again.  Once I have your "73" we are finished.
   

I have noticed that some station just will not let go until there has been an exchange of "73" and that can take forever and adds nothing to the validity of the QSO as far as I can tell.

Again, thanks for putting the primer together - see you on the EME contest in ten days or so.

John K4SQC/W4NH