[RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
AE4CW
ae4cw at att.net
Sun Aug 5 10:53:15 PDT 2012
I have a Yaesu G-800SA to which I added a Microsystems Design RC1-Y control.
This control does use PWM and does generate hash on most bands from 160-6M.
3-5 turns of both the rotor cable and the computer cable through large #31
snap-on got rid of most of the noise but some residual remains. The Yaesu
control is straight DC (no PWM) and is completely RF silent.
---
Chuck, AE4CW
-----Original Message-----
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Subject: RFI Digest, Vol 115, Issue 4
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Today's Topics:
1. Noise emitted by rotator (Pete Smith N4ZR)
2. Re: Noise emitted by rotator (qrv at kd4e.com)
3. Re: Noise emitted by rotator (Bob Turner)
4. Noise emitted by rotator (emoss98133 at msn.com)
5. Re: Noise emitted by rotator (KD7JYK DM09)
6. Re: Noise emitted by rotator (K1TTT)
7. Re: Noise emitted by rotator (Pete Smith N4ZR)
8. Re: Noise emitted by rotator (Dale)
9. Re: Noise emitted by rotator (K1TTT)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 21:32:48 -0400
From: Pete Smith N4ZR <n4zr at contesting.com>
Subject: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
To: RFI List <rfi at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <501DCD40.2040005 at contesting.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I've started noticing that on 10 meters my top Yaesu G-1000 rotator has
begun to emit broadband white noise when the antenna is actually turning.
Any ideas what the cause could be?
73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com The Reverse
Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 21:44:33 -0400
From: "qrv at kd4e.com" <qrv at kd4e.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
To: RFI List <rfi at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <501DD001.7000504 at kd4e.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Could it be the wiper in the position-pot?
Like a light dimmer in the house when the surface gets dirty or worn.
> I've started noticing that on 10 meters my top Yaesu G-1000 rotator
> has begun to emit broadband white noise when the antenna is actually
> turning. Any ideas what the cause could be?
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
--
Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com
David Colburn nevils-station.com
I don't google I SEARCH! duckduckgo.com
Network: groups.yahoo.com/group/qrv
Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 22:39:45 -0400
From: "Bob Turner" <Bob at n2scj.net>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
To: "Pete Smith N4ZR" <n4zr at contesting.com>, "RFI List"
<rfi at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <90706996B7AD45FE973C846C6411C1F7 at Office>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Mine too. I hear noise on V/UHF. It seems to be worse when I don't use it.
The more I use it the quieter it gets. Its been this way ~3 years now.
Bob
http://n2scj.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Smith N4ZR
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 9:32 PM
To: RFI List
Subject: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
I've started noticing that on 10 meters my top Yaesu G-1000 rotator has
begun to emit broadband white noise when the antenna is actually
turning. Any ideas what the cause could be?
73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
_______________________________________________
RFI mailing list
RFI at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 20:46:59 -0700
From: <emoss98133 at msn.com>
Subject: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
To: <rfi at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <COL104-DS5AEAEAC5D1487458C9F6292C80 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My Yaesu G-800S does it also , only in one direction. (CW) right
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 22:07:58 -0700
From: "KD7JYK DM09" <kd7jyk at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
To: "Pete Smith N4ZR" <n4zr at contesting.com>, "RFI List"
<rfi at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <025e01cd72c8$ef305440$62ddf604 at mainframe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
: I've started noticing that on 10 meters my top Yaesu G-1000 rotator has
: begun to emit broadband white noise when the antenna is actually
: turning. Any ideas what the cause could be?
I would guess that it's white noise generated by arcing due to
metallic/carbon debris on the motors rotor contacts. I've noticed this with
two DC motors over the years.
Kurt
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 10:35:30 +0000
From: "K1TTT" <K1TTT at ARRL.NET>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
To: "'RFI List'" <rfi at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <000c01cd72f6$0c9e61c0$25db2540$@ARRL.NET>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
There are 2 things to consider in this... in that rotor the motor is
actually isolated from ground, and it contains a filter circuit consisting
of chokes and capacitors. One of the first odd things I helped diagnose was
a case where the filter was damaged in such a way that it had a low
resistance to ground on one side. The odd result of this was that the rotor
turned slower one way than the other because the ground reference for the
speed control is through a resistor to ground and when the motor circuit
isn't isolated the ground reference changes when you power the motor. So if
a motor for one of this series starts making noise I would suspect the
filter circuit is damaged or that something in the circuit is leaking to
ground which would make the tower the radiator. Check the resistance of the
motor leads to ground, it should be essentially an open circuit. If that is
ok you might be able to add capacitance at the connector up on the tower to
improve the filtering.
David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Smith N4ZR [mailto:n4zr at contesting.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 01:33
To: RFI List
Subject: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
I've started noticing that on 10 meters my top Yaesu G-1000 rotator has
begun to emit broadband white noise when the antenna is actually turning.
Any ideas what the cause could be?
73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com The Reverse
Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
_______________________________________________
RFI mailing list
RFI at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 06:58:38 -0400
From: Pete Smith N4ZR <n4zr at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
To: rfi at contesting.com
Message-ID: <501E51DE.1090201 at contesting.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Thanks to everyone for their ideas on this. I had come to pretty much
the same conclusion as Dave about the filter, maybe with some support as
well for the idea that the brushes in the motor are wearing out. Then I
decided to test the theory that it had something to do with disuse,
since I hadn't turned the antenna in a week or so. I started it
rotating clockwise and after about 90 degrees the noise suddenly
stopped. Turned back and forth a few more times - no more noise. I'm a
happy camper, because I wasn't looking forward to climbing the tower to
deal with it. I'm sure it may come back, and eventually I'll have to
deal with it, but for the moment.....
73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
On 8/5/2012 6:35 AM, K1TTT wrote:
> There are 2 things to consider in this... in that rotor the motor is
> actually isolated from ground, and it contains a filter circuit consisting
> of chokes and capacitors. One of the first odd things I helped diagnose
was
> a case where the filter was damaged in such a way that it had a low
> resistance to ground on one side. The odd result of this was that the
rotor
> turned slower one way than the other because the ground reference for the
> speed control is through a resistor to ground and when the motor circuit
> isn't isolated the ground reference changes when you power the motor. So
if
> a motor for one of this series starts making noise I would suspect the
> filter circuit is damaged or that something in the circuit is leaking to
> ground which would make the tower the radiator. Check the resistance of
the
> motor leads to ground, it should be essentially an open circuit. If that
is
> ok you might be able to add capacitance at the connector up on the tower
to
> improve the filtering.
>
> David Robbins K1TTT
> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
> web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pete Smith N4ZR [mailto:n4zr at contesting.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 01:33
> To: RFI List
> Subject: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
>
>
> I've started noticing that on 10 meters my top Yaesu G-1000 rotator has
> begun to emit broadband white noise when the antenna is actually turning.
> Any ideas what the cause could be?
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com The Reverse
> Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
> reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
and
> arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 09:54:57 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Dale <svetanoff at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
To: Pete Smith N4ZR <n4zr at contesting.com>, rfi at contesting.com
Message-ID:
<13204997.1344174898302.JavaMail.root at elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Pete and All,
I have a G-1000 and can tell you that since it has a speed control, the
output of the control unit is PWM (pulse width modulated). I have never
heard QRN from the rotor or control unit, but then again that rotator is on
my VHF/UHF tower. I can tell you that even tho I have surge protectors on
the lines going to the rotor, something (rotor or controller)did not survive
a direct lightning hit to the tower's mast and some antennas.
My guess is that you were hearing some "hash" from the PWM circuits. I did
experience some lock-up in very cold WX (under 10 deg F) due to stiffness of
the coax bundle going up to the antennas. A few excursions of the direction
control would usually get things moving again. Also, consider that the
sticking issue could be with the thrust bearing, rather than the rotator
itself.
73, Dale
WA9ENA
-----Original Message-----
>From: Pete Smith N4ZR <n4zr at contesting.com>
>Sent: Aug 5, 2012 6:58 AM
>To: rfi at contesting.com
>Subject: Re: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
>
>Thanks to everyone for their ideas on this. I had come to pretty much
>the same conclusion as Dave about the filter, maybe with some support as
>well for the idea that the brushes in the motor are wearing out. Then I
>decided to test the theory that it had something to do with disuse,
>since I hadn't turned the antenna in a week or so. I started it
>rotating clockwise and after about 90 degrees the noise suddenly
>stopped. Turned back and forth a few more times - no more noise. I'm a
>happy camper, because I wasn't looking forward to climbing the tower to
>deal with it. I'm sure it may come back, and eventually I'll have to
>deal with it, but for the moment.....
>
>73, Pete N4ZR
>The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com
>The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
>arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
>On 8/5/2012 6:35 AM, K1TTT wrote:
>> There are 2 things to consider in this... in that rotor the motor is
>> actually isolated from ground, and it contains a filter circuit
consisting
>> of chokes and capacitors. One of the first odd things I helped diagnose
was
>> a case where the filter was damaged in such a way that it had a low
>> resistance to ground on one side. The odd result of this was that the
rotor
>> turned slower one way than the other because the ground reference for the
>> speed control is through a resistor to ground and when the motor circuit
>> isn't isolated the ground reference changes when you power the motor. So
if
>> a motor for one of this series starts making noise I would suspect the
>> filter circuit is damaged or that something in the circuit is leaking to
>> ground which would make the tower the radiator. Check the resistance of
the
>> motor leads to ground, it should be essentially an open circuit. If that
is
>> ok you might be able to add capacitance at the connector up on the tower
to
>> improve the filtering.
>>
>> David Robbins K1TTT
>> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
>> web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
>> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pete Smith N4ZR [mailto:n4zr at contesting.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 01:33
>> To: RFI List
>> Subject: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
>>
>>
>> I've started noticing that on 10 meters my top Yaesu G-1000 rotator has
>> begun to emit broadband white noise when the antenna is actually turning.
>> Any ideas what the cause could be?
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>> The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com The
Reverse
>> Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>> reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
and
>> arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RFI mailing list
>> RFI at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RFI mailing list
>> RFI at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>RFI mailing list
>RFI at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 15:13:20 +0000
From: "K1TTT" <K1TTT at ARRL.NET>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
To: "'Dale'" <svetanoff at earthlink.net>, "'Pete Smith N4ZR'"
<n4zr at contesting.com>, <rfi at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <001101cd731c$da87bde0$8f9739a0$@ARRL.NET>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
No pwm in there, just simple dc voltage control... it even has a 330uf
filter cap just before the direction switching relay.
David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Dale [mailto:svetanoff at earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 13:55
To: Pete Smith N4ZR; rfi at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
Pete and All,
I have a G-1000 and can tell you that since it has a speed control, the
output of the control unit is PWM (pulse width modulated). I have never
heard QRN from the rotor or control unit, but then again that rotator is on
my VHF/UHF tower. I can tell you that even tho I have surge protectors on
the lines going to the rotor, something (rotor or controller)did not survive
a direct lightning hit to the tower's mast and some antennas.
My guess is that you were hearing some "hash" from the PWM circuits. I did
experience some lock-up in very cold WX (under 10 deg F) due to stiffness of
the coax bundle going up to the antennas. A few excursions of the direction
control would usually get things moving again. Also, consider that the
sticking issue could be with the thrust bearing, rather than the rotator
itself.
73, Dale
WA9ENA
-----Original Message-----
>From: Pete Smith N4ZR <n4zr at contesting.com>
>Sent: Aug 5, 2012 6:58 AM
>To: rfi at contesting.com
>Subject: Re: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
>
>Thanks to everyone for their ideas on this. I had come to pretty much
>the same conclusion as Dave about the filter, maybe with some support
>as well for the idea that the brushes in the motor are wearing out.
>Then I decided to test the theory that it had something to do with
>disuse, since I hadn't turned the antenna in a week or so. I started
>it rotating clockwise and after about 90 degrees the noise suddenly
>stopped. Turned back and forth a few more times - no more noise. I'm
>a happy camper, because I wasn't looking forward to climbing the tower
>to deal with it. I'm sure it may come back, and eventually I'll have
>to deal with it, but for the moment.....
>
>73, Pete N4ZR
>The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com The
>Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port
>7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
>On 8/5/2012 6:35 AM, K1TTT wrote:
>> There are 2 things to consider in this... in that rotor the motor is
>> actually isolated from ground, and it contains a filter circuit
>> consisting of chokes and capacitors. One of the first odd things I
>> helped diagnose was a case where the filter was damaged in such a way
>> that it had a low resistance to ground on one side. The odd result
>> of this was that the rotor turned slower one way than the other
>> because the ground reference for the speed control is through a
>> resistor to ground and when the motor circuit isn't isolated the
>> ground reference changes when you power the motor. So if a motor for
>> one of this series starts making noise I would suspect the filter
>> circuit is damaged or that something in the circuit is leaking to
>> ground which would make the tower the radiator. Check the resistance
>> of the motor leads to ground, it should be essentially an open
>> circuit. If that is ok you might be able to add capacitance at the
connector up on the tower to improve the filtering.
>>
>> David Robbins K1TTT
>> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
>> web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
>> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pete Smith N4ZR [mailto:n4zr at contesting.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 01:33
>> To: RFI List
>> Subject: [RFI] Noise emitted by rotator
>>
>>
>> I've started noticing that on 10 meters my top Yaesu G-1000 rotator
>> has begun to emit broadband white noise when the antenna is actually
turning.
>> Any ideas what the cause could be?
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>> The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com The
>> Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>> reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port
>> 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RFI mailing list
>> RFI at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RFI mailing list
>> RFI at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>RFI mailing list
>RFI at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
------------------------------
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