[RFI] 160 meter noise at W9RE tracked down to neighbors Comcast Cable Box / Power Supply

Dave Cole dave at nk7z.net
Sun Feb 23 12:37:52 EST 2020


Thanks Jim, nice video...  I'll send you a private note so we don't 
hijack the 160/Comcast thread any further...

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 2/23/20 9:04 AM, AA5CT wrote:
> 
> re: "I need to move to the country, with a hill between me and all cities, or ..."
> 
> Or, look at what Horizontal Waller Flag can do. N4IS Jose Carlos has a good YT
> video on what the transmit antenna, then the Waller Flag V and H does to 'noise'
> and allowing the signal to "shine through".
> 
> 73, de AA5CT Jim
> 
> .
> .
>   
> 
> On Sunday, February 23, 2020, 9:50:10 AM GMT-6, Dave Cole <dave at nk7z.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting datum regarding RFI...
> 
> I have a friend that lives two miles from me, I live in the city, he
> lives in the country, with a large rock hill between him and the same
> city I live in...
> 
> Last night I was listening to VP8PJ on 40 CW, I could almost hear him
> with my 6BTV, and 40 radials on the ground.  I would pick out a 5NN now
> and then.
> 
> Using his rig, over the phone, he was hearing VP8PJ at 100% in the
> clear...  Copyable 100% across a crappy phone line...  For me, this was
> the quiet time for RFI, S4 to S5.  His background RFI on 40, S1...
> VP8PJ was S3 at his place.
> 
> Both of us have the same rig, same antenna, same number of radials...  I
> need to move to the country, with a hill between me and all cities, or
> get a remote receiver.
> 
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> 
> On 2/23/20 7:36 AM, Don Kirk wrote:
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> I totally agree with your statements and similar to how I use my SDR gear.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Don
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 10:10 AM Dave Cole <dave at nk7z.net
>> <mailto:dave at nk7z.net>> wrote:
>>
>>      Hi Don,
>>
>>      I tend to agree with you somewhat on the SDR issue-- SDR is great at
>>      defining what noise type one is having, what your general RFI
>>      environment looks like, and in general, what is happening around you in
>>      the RFI world.
>>
>>      However it will not in most cases, let you say, "Oh, look there is a GE
>>      oven clock on a GE model 12345".
>>
>>      SDR will let you say, I have some very broadband RFI, or I have some
>>      narrow band RFI, the the RFI I have is on a schedule,etc., and that
>>      type
>>      of data, tends to point to these types of devices, etc.
>>
>>      SDR helps define the tools needed to hunt, and some indications as to
>>      what you might be looking for...  SDR will help you define when to
>>      hunt,
>>      if your source is on a schedule, etc...
>>
>>      So in the way of "lets ID the source to the part number", sort of
>>      way, I
>>      agree, we are slipping a bit into that mode using a SDRs.
>>
>>      I use my SDR to point me in a general direction for tools, hunting
>>      methods, and times...
>>
>>      I also use it to quantify what my RFI is prior to a fix, and then check
>>      after the fix.  SDR has its place, but it is not defining an RFI source
>>      to the item part number.
>>
>>      Every 6 months to a year, I do a full spectrum record of my RFI
>>      across a
>>      24 hour period using HDSDR, then save that data.  That helps me see
>>      what
>>      is happening around me over time...  There is a place for SDR in RFI
>>      hunting-- as a guide to what further steps to take, and in defining
>>      what
>>      is happening around you over long time frames...
>>
>>      73, and thanks,
>>      Dave (NK7Z)
>>      https://www.nk7z.net
>>      ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>>      ARRL Technical Specialist
>>      ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>>
>>      On 2/23/20 5:12 AM, Don Kirk wrote:
>>        > Hi Jim,
>>        >
>>        > Thanks.
>>        >
>>        > I know and follow your guidelines really well, but I have to tell
>>      you that
>>        > when working in someones house that is not a hams we should not be
>>        > installing anything special if at all possible (unless it's
>>      indeed one
>>        > simple choke on the power cord and that's even pushing it).  We
>>      should
>>        > first hold the company that installed or supplied the hardware
>>      responsible
>>        > for a clean solution.  In this case if it's the switch mode power
>>      supply,
>>        > then Comcast can easily provide them a different power supply or a
>>        > different Cable box that uses a different power supply to see if
>>      that fixes
>>        > the problem.  The homeowner is actually going to take his Comcast
>>      cable box
>>        > and power supply to Comcast on Monday and ask for some different
>>      hardware.
>>        > We also showed the homeowner how they can easily test possible
>>      solutions
>>        > using their AM radio if Comcast technicians come to their house
>>      as right
>>        > now they can't hear any AM radio stations unless they unplug
>>      their Comcast
>>        > cable box power supply.  They will also be working with Mike for
>>      possible
>>        > solutions, but as I said we should try and find the correct
>>      solution if
>>        > possible versus installing our band aids all over the place in a
>>      strangers
>>        > home.  We are lucky in this case that the homeowners are very
>>      open and
>>        > willing to go the extra mile to help Mike (W9RE), so if commercial
>>        > solutions do not work then Mike can indeed take the band aid
>>      approach but
>>        > again I prefer to go the commercial route solution if at all
>>      possible.
>>        >
>>        > We did try a choke made per your guidelines on the power cord,
>>      and it had
>>        > no effect.  I often try your choke on power cords, and sometimes
>>      they do a
>>        > fantastic job, and other times not (sometimes probably due to
>>      issues like
>>        > you mention about other cables entering and exiting the box, but
>>      sometimes
>>        > it was due to the fact that I needed to use a differential mode
>>      filter on
>>        > the power line or a combination of both).
>>        >
>>        > While I'm preaching, I also think we have gotten overboard on this
>>        > reflector regarding SDR screen shots, audio recordings of noise,
>>      etc. from
>>        > people asking what their source of RFI might be.  Time and time
>>      again while
>>        > out tracking down noise I have found that the only thing that
>>      matters is to
>>        > identify the property (location) generating the noise using radio
>>      direction
>>        > finding equipment (which can often be very simple home brew
>>      equipment which
>>        > most of mine is), and then track down the offending device within the
>>        > property.  Too many times when I'm out hunting down noise that's
>>      bothering
>>        > another ham we waste time and take too many tangents when one
>>      thinks they
>>        > know what the source is.
>>        >
>>        > Just my opinion, and a little cranky after tracking down too many
>>      noise
>>        > sources this week and it's just a hobby, and I still have a day
>>      job with
>>        > lots of worldwide travel.  On the positive side I sure got a lot
>>      of steps
>>        > in on my Fitbit this week.
>>        >
>>        > 73,
>>        > Don (wd8dsb)
>>        >
>>        >
>>        >
>>        >
>>        >
>>        > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 3:42 AM Jim Brown
>>      <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com <mailto:jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>> wrote:
>>        >
>>        >> On 2/23/2020 12:22 AM, Don Kirk wrote:
>>        >>> They are now going to work with Comcast and Mike to find a
>>      solution as a
>>        >>> power line choke made with a number 31 material Toroid core did not
>>        >> reduce
>>        >>> the RFI.
>>        >>
>>        >> Don (and Mike),
>>        >>
>>        >> Every cable connected to the box can be an antenna so it needs a
>>      choke.
>>        >> I'd start with the coax and power. Use the guidelines in the chasing
>>        >> noise app note below and the new HF choke cookbook, depending on the
>>        >> size of the cable you're choking and the frequency(ies) that are
>>        >> bothering you. See Fig 2 on page 2 and the associated discussion.
>>        >>
>>        >> http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf
>>        >>
>>        >> 73, Jim K9YC
>>        >> _______________________________________________
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