[RFI] DFing intermittent connection

Tue Aug 17 09:48:33 EDT 2021

Hi Gordon, 

Please clarify your ground rod installation 

How many 8 foot ground rods are installed and where are they installed? 

The 4 foot grounds are very effective and should be replaced. 

How far apart are your 200 amp panel and the entry point for your ham 
radio related cables? 

Multiple AC power surge suppressors can be a big problem because 
you have no idea which will fire first. You should have excellent 
suppression at the AC power entry and no where else 

All ground rod systems should be bonded together. 

It sounds like you do not have this excellent book, its worth 
every doolar you'll spend for it 

www.arrl.org/shop/Grounding-and-Bonding-for-the-Radio-Amateur 

73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

----- Original Message -----

From: "James Gordon Beattie Jr" <w2ttt at att.net> 
To: "Tim Duffy" <k3lr at k3lr.com>, "K9MA" <k9ma at sdellington.us>, "Eddie Edwards" <eddieedwards at centurylink.net>, rfi at contesting.com, "James Gordon Beattie Jr" <w2ttt at att.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 5:02:10 AM 
Subject: Re: [RFI] DFing intermittent connection 

Tim, et al, 
So here's a question about bonding and grounding. 
Parts of the described system are done, and others need to get done - correctly, hence my questions. 

10x16 ft ham shack structure with a Rohn 45 thirty feet away from the entrance panels. Ring ground will loop around both. Ground rods are 8 ft copper clad steel no more than 7 ft apart. There are nine additional 4 ft ground rods (three lines of three) spaced 3.5 ft apart extending from each of the three legs. The ground rods are to be bonded together using bare #6 copper wire and fastened using acorn nuts. The bare #6 copper wire ring is going to be only about four inches below tbe soil except at the ground rods. Tbe acorn nuts will rewuire 

The lightning arrestors are in a stainless steel flat cabinet six inches above the ground with the base plate directly attached to the ring behind the shack so as to minimize ground resistance at the arrestors. The antenna, network and control cables leave the arrestor box located on the ground ring and then are jumpered up onto the antenna/network/control cable entrance bulkhead connectors on the entrance plate. This entrance plate is six feet away from the power entrance panel. Both the power entrance panel and the antenna/network/control entrance plate have their own pience of insulated #6 copper wire connected to the ring ground. There is also a 2x2 inch piece of aluminum angle connecting the power and antenna/network/control entrance panel on the inside of the shack wall that also provides the single point ground for equipment. 

A few other notes: There is a Siemens surge protector on the outdoor 200A meter panel. The 100A shack subpanel is ten feet away. Should I include the 200A xmain service ground in the ground ring? 

Further, is there any benefit to adding a second surge protector on the shack subpanel? I have one available. 

Finally, I have some two inch copper that I bought from DX Engineering in a 25 ft roll. It's a Georgia Copper product. Given your concerns about bare copper, should this be used only inside the shack? 

OK, so have at it... 

Vy 73, 
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT 
201.314.6964 

Get On The Air! 

________________________________ 
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w2ttt=att.net at contesting.com> on behalf of Tim Duffy <k3lr at k3lr.com> 
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021, 23:08 
To: 'K9MA'; 'Eddie Edwards'; rfi at contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [RFI] DFing intermittent connection 

Remember we are giving advice to all hams on this reflector. 

We want to insure we are giving the correct advice 

There are no short cuts to doing things the right way 

There is only one way to ground and bond - the right way. 

73 
Tim K3LR 

-----Original Message----- 
From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces+k3lr=k3lr.com at contesting.com] On Behalf Of K9MA 
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 11:03 PM 
To: Eddie Edwards; rfi at contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [RFI] DFing intermittent connection 

We get plenty of lightning in Wisconsin, but in my case the shunt around 
the thrust bearing (and rotator) is mainly to prevent harmonic 
generation when shunt feeding the tower. If the tower gets a direct 
hit, damaged bearings will be the least of my worries. 

73, 
Scott K9MA 

On 8/16/2021 9:43 PM, Eddie Edwards wrote: 
> As long as you don't get a lot of lightning up in Wisconsin, the impedance of your entire ground protection system probably doesn't matter as much either. But isn't that the point of all the bonding and grounding just in case? 
> YMMV 
> 
> 73, de ed -K0iL 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+eddieedwards=centurylink.net at contesting.com> On Behalf Of K9MA 
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 17:42 
> To: donovanf at erols.com; rfi at contesting.com 
> Subject: Re: [RFI] DFing intermittent connection 
> 
> Hi Frank, 
> 
> That makes sense. All I ever used it for was as a shunt around the thrust bearing, for which the impedance probably wasn't that critical. 
> 
> 73, 
> Scott K9MA 
> 
> 
> On 8/16/2021 4:44 PM, donovanf at erols.com wrote: 
>> Hi Scott, 
>> 
>> Braid is always a poor choice outdoors unless its under pressure and 
>> protected from moisture such as inside jacketed coax cable 
>> 
>> When its no longer under pressure and protected from moisture the RF 
>> resistance of braid goes up dramatically because the crossovers in the 
>> braid no longer conduct effectively. 
>> 
>> That's why the appropriate choice for an outdoor conductor is stranded 
>> wire or solid wire and never braid 
>> 
>> 73 
>> Frank 
>> W3LPL 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -- 
>> *From: *"K9MA" <k9ma at sdellington.us> 
>> *To: *donovanf at erols.com, rfi at contesting.com 
>> *Sent: *Monday, August 16, 2021 9:27:16 PM 
>> *Subject: *Re: [RFI] DFing intermittent connection 
>> 
>> Gee, it's worked for me for years. Not much salt spray in Wisconsin. 
>> 
>> 73, 
>> Scott K9MA 
>> 
>> On 8/16/2021 12:32 PM, donovanf at erols.com wrote: 
>> 
>> Jim, 
>> 
>> Please ignore Scott's advice, it will cause tower corrosion and 
>> quickly fail 
>> 
>> 73 
>> Frank 
>> W3LPL 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>> *From: *"K9MA" <k9ma at sdellington.us> 
>> *To: *jimk8mr at aol.com 
>> *Cc: *rfi at contesting.com 
>> *Sent: *Monday, August 16, 2021 4:30:35 PM 
>> *Subject: *Re: [RFI] DFing intermittent connection 
>> 
>> Or just use the braid from some RG8 and a couple hose clamps. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- 
>> 
>> Scott Ellington. K9MA 
>> 
>> --- via iPhone 
>> 
>> > On Aug 16, 2021, at 9:27 AM, jimk8mr--- via RFI 
>> <rfi at contesting.com> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > The kit is basically a very heavy, very flexible cable, six 
>> feet or so, with lugs on both ends, and clamps with a large flat 
>> surface to attach to the mast and to the tower leg. I'd think that 
>> the bottom lug could be attached to a tower bolt, or some other 
>> low resistance connection to the tower. 
>> > It would seem to also be simple to homebrew something a bit less 
>> rugged, perhaps using a piece of RG-8, shield and center conductor 
>> connected together. 
>> > 
>> > 73 - Jim K8MR 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -----Original Message----- 
>> > From: EDWARDS, EDDIE J via RFI <rfi at contesting.com> 
>> > To: RFI List <rfi at contesting.com> 
>> > Sent: Mon, Aug 16, 2021 9:09 am 
>> > Subject: Re: [RFI] DFing intermittent connection 
>> > 
>> > Just FYi...They told me they only have the bypass kits for 
>> standard Rohn towers, but not for the BX or HDBX series towers. 
>> Need to make your own for other non-rohn configurations. 
>> > 
>> > 73, de ed -K0iL 
>> > 
>> > -----Original Message----- 
>> > From: RFI On Behalf Of jimk8mr--- via RFI 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > You might look into DX Engineering's Bearing Bypass Ground Kits 
>> DXE-BBGK-2-25-P. 
>> > I installed one yesterday for K8AZ. I'm not sure if Tom had a 
>> particular problem or it was just as a precaution. It easy to 
>> install, the only issue in my case was that the tower had been 
>> painted, so some paint scraping was in order. But much easier than 
>> replacing a thrust bearing! 
>> > 
>> > 73 - Jim K8MR 
>> > 
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>> 
>> -- 
>> Scott K9MA 
>> 
>> k9ma at sdellington.us 
>> 
> -- 
> Scott K9MA 
> 
> k9ma at sdellington.us 
> 
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> 

-- 
Scott K9MA 

k9ma at sdellington.us 

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