[RFI] Another Solar Panel Interference Case

Tue Apr 5 15:25:40 EDT 2022

Ed,
Your point is well taken, but the graph is not baselined rationally.  A typical statistical trick is to show an elevated baseline, and not one that is proportionate.  From its peak of 2100 employees, the FCC is down to 1550 today, or down about 25%.  The graph would have you panicking, especially with the use of red at the minimum.  Perhaps a 25% cut is worthy of panic, but the graph is disingenuously presented.

That having been said, the FCC's technical headcount is woefully low.  When one accounts for the Federal administrative overhead and work rules placed on the workforce, its efficiency is further demininished.  I recall that it was around the period of the staffing peak that Congress had to mandate that each Commissioner employ at least one engineer because several, or most employed NONE.  In typical bureaucratic fashion, positions were filled with lawyers with undergraduate degrees in engineering and virtually no engineering experience.  Government in action.

There are a lot of conscientious FCC Engineers and other staff, but there is only so much an individual can do.  Then there are other institutional limitations including staff centralization into the DC area, and studies and other reporting and spectrum reuse requirements placed on the Commissioners and staff by Congress.  Finally, you add lobbyists and other political and financial actors and it's a wonder anything gets done by those who do earnest work at the FCC.

I remember a few years back during a Senate Committee hearing when a Senator was arguing with an Air Force 4-Star over spectrum reuse, and the General deadpanned a line to the effect that Congress can create laws that suspend certain actions, but they can't pass laws to suspend the laws of physics.  :-)

As for VZW and AT&T staffing, there are surprisingly few engineers available and equipped to troubleshoot noise and other forms of interference, but they do an excellent job when tackling a reported issue.  Keep in mind that their networks (wired and wireless) are often impacted by issues with SMPSs and solar panels in particular.  The trick is to recognize, measure, isolate and mitigate those issues.  These networks are massive with millions of components and even with comprehensive monitoring, there are things that can be below the radar or be ambiguous as to their cause without correlation or further investigation.

Then there are the hard-core stubborn (read: "stupid") cases.  I can remember one municipal power utility  district in California who told the telecom engineer working the issue that since they were a local government utility that the FCC had no jurisdiction over the emissions from their power grid.  The follow-up to that was interesting.  :-)

As for the ARRL staff, the level and thoroughness of their inputs have been positively disproportionate to the 1.5 headcount available.  For this we are grateful.  Thank you!

73,
Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
201.314.6964
W2TTT at ATT.NET
Gordon.BeattieJr at VIAVISolutions.com

Get On The Air!

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________________________________
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w2ttt=att.net at contesting.com> on behalf of Hare, Ed, W1RFI <w1rfi at arrl.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2022, 14:13
To: Steve Dyer W1SRD; rfi at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] Another Solar Panel Interference Case

Yes, and 1.5 staff in the ARRL Lab have managed to be the focal point and do all the legwork for the cases that FCC does handle.  Without that, we'd be back to the pre-Riley days where FCC took no action whatsoever.

Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Steve Dyer W1SRD via RFI
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 1:55 PM
To: rfi at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] Another Solar Panel Interference Case

Here is where the FCC is:
https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/fcc-requests-budget-increase
The FCC has 1550 employees to manage all the spectrum issues for a country of 330,000,000 citizens and a GDP of $21,000,000,000,000 (that's trillions).
Verizon alone has 130,000 employees. AT&T has 200,000.
For comparison, the FCC budget request is .05% of the defense budget request.
AT&T, Verizon, Charter and T-Mobile spent $107M in lobbying in 2020.
Perhaps most telling is this graph of FCC headcount 1983-2016.
https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-331835A1.pdf
I would say we are getting the level of service and outcomes we are paying for.
73,
Steve
W1SRD
> And the "official" reply from FCC to the impacted (RFI) coverage areas
> for AM BC, "Increase your output power."  Sure.....Yea......That costs
> the BCer money both for a new transmitter and continuing additional
> fees to pay the electric bill.
>
> Yes, where is the FCC??
>
> Dave - WØLEV
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 3:24 PM EDWARDS, EDDIE J via RFI
> <rfi at contesting.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I've only seen RFI mentioned in passing a few times in Radio World a
>> broadcast magazine.  Doesn't seem to be an issue for broadcasters
>> typically operating from 5,000 watts to 50,000 watts.
>>
>> If you think about it, it's not going to be much of an issue to local
>> AM broadcasters who are using very strong local transmissions on
>> ground wave to the receivers.  They may only lose fringe or rural
>> area listeners, and only if those listeners get solar systems.
>> Compare that to amateur radio operators running only 100 watts
>> (typical) or less or rarely up to 1,500watts (max) transmitting
>> through the ionosphere once or multiple times with 40-70db or more of
>> loss and requiring highly sensitive receivers to pick up the weak signals.
>>
>> Most AM broadcasters won't be affected much at all with minimal loss
>> of listeners.  But Amateur Radio will be.
>>
>> 73, de ed -K0iL
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+eedwards=oppd.com at contesting.com> On Behalf Of
>> bill steffey
>> Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 7:20 PM
>> To: Rfi List <rfi at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Another Solar Panel Interference Case
>>
>>
>> not having a BAD solar System, but a good one , I wonder what happens
>> to receiving AM broadcasting ?????
>>
>> The AM broadcaster is a guy with a commercial license, a big
>> investment AND THE PROFIT MOTIVE destroyed by interference.
>>
>>
>> Where o'  where did the FCC go????
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/4/2022 7:59 PM, Hare, Ed, W1RFI wrote:
>>> Get these reports to Steve Anderson, W1EMI at arrl.org, or rfi at arrl.org.
>> The more we bring these to the involved companies, the more they will
>> do to try to improve future designs.
>>> Ed, W1RFI
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org at contesting.com> On Behalf Of
>>> Tony
>>> Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 7:44 PM
>>> To: Rfi List <rfi at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: [RFI] Another Solar Panel Interference Case
>>>
>>> All:
>>>
>>> Just received word from yet another ham who is experiencing solar
>>> panel
>> RFI. Jeff, KD2SCR said he recently became a new ham and noticed that
>> his home solar system was causing interference. The system is made by
>> Solar Edge so no surprise there.
>>> I continue to hear from hams both here and abroad and there is no
>>> doubt
>> in my mind that wide-spread solar panel interference will not only
>> discourage new hams, but it will kill HF radio for the majority us --
>> especially those living in cities and suburbs where home solar
>> saturates these areas.
>>> See Jeff's comments below.
>>>
>>> Tony -K2MO
>>>
>>> /Hello, //
>>> /
>>> /
>>> /
>>> /I just saw your videos on YT on interference from solar panels.
>>> notable from the neighbors solar city install with solar edge
>>> equipment. I also have solar city with solar edge equipment and 3
>>> weeks ago I got my General license and a new Yaesu FTDX10./ / / /The
>>> only band I can transmit on is 40m. but not very far, like ct and va
>>> and I'm in new jersey. Wondering if this was ever resolved as your
>>> videos are 2 years old ?/ / / /73//thanks! Jeff KD2SCR. // /
>>>
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