[RFI] IR Illuminator for Security Cameras

Mon Jan 31 11:23:49 EST 2022

I have about 130 FEIT/Costco LED 4' T8 type in my shop/shack.  No RFI 
problems 160 > 2m.  Early FEIT LEDs btw show superb MTBF, >50k hrs.  A 
variety of fixture ballasts left in. One of 8 3 bulb troffer ballasts 
emitted magic smoke after 5 yrs, need to rewire it direct to bulbs.

Grant KZ1W

On 1/31/2022 06:42, Jim McDonald wrote:
> Any experience with 4' or 8' LED fluorescent tubes?   We're about to have conventional ones in our barn replaced with the LEDs.
> 
> We just replaced the exterior area light on the barn with an LED, and I don't hear any noise from it.
> 
> The Feit bulbs from Costco in our house don't seem to cause any noise.
> 
> Jim N7US
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+jim=n7us.net at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Hare, Ed, W1RFI
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 08:09
> To: Michael Tope <W4EF at dellroy.com>; David Eckhardt <davearea51a at gmail.com>
> Cc: RFI <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] IR Illuminator for Security Cameras
> 
> We have measured a number of LED bulbs here in the ARRL Lab.  They range from essentially zero noise to way over the FCC limits.   The good news is that all of the ones we have tested *so far* that are being sold in the big box stores do meet the FCC emissions limits. The outliers are being sold elsewhere, including eBay.  One just sent to us for testing is 26 dB over the emissions limits. It is causing bad interference.  With an actual interference case and measurements well above the FCC limits, ARRL is going to file a formal complaint on this one.
> 
> Of note, meeting the FCC limits is not a guarantee at all of no interference.  The limits below 30 MHz are for noise conducted onto the AC mains only.  There are no limits for radiated emissions below 30 MHz or limits on the amount of noise that can be put on the secondary of devices such as some kitchen lights that have a power supply and run wires to the actual LED bulbs.
> 
> Generally, the rules do prevent a lot of interference, and if there is interference from a neighbor's device, it is going to be close to you and easier to find.
> 
> To be marketed, several criteria apply.
> 
> * For LED bulbs and systems to be marketed to consumers, the design must be tested by the manufacturer to meet the FCC Part 15 Class B limits.  For fluourescent bulbs, they must meet Part 18 consumer limits.  Class A or non-consumer devices to do exist, bt they are supposed to be marketed only for use in commercial environments.  Lowe's and Home Depot sell "commercial" units openly, so be wary.
> 
> * They must be marketed with the FCC logo and the language described earlier on a label on the product or, if the product is small, in the documentation.
> 
> * These are the responsibility of the manufacturer and marketer. The end user of the product is responsible under FCC rules for using it in a way that does not cause harmful interference to licensed radio.
> 
> The latter point is really hard to communicate to neighbors, so be prepared to explain why a device they just bought at Home Depot is in violation of some federal law that they don't understand.
> 
> Ed Hare, W1RFI
> ARRL Lab
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Michael Tope
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2022 2:53 PM
> To: David Eckhardt <davearea51a at gmail.com>
> Cc: RFI <rfi at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] IR Illuminator for Security Cameras
> 
> Thank you, Dave. Yeah, I understand that this warning is somewhat perfunctory, but it was so prominently displayed in the manual and a friend was just complaining about RFI from LED lights. Those two things got me to wondering if these things (IR LED arrays) are a know problem child, or just one of the many things that can be a problem, but not always are a problem. This one takes +12V input, so I suppose the risk is low that the array itself is going to be an interference source. I assume the RFI problem with LED lights is actually the switchers that supply them rather the the semiconductors themselves and I can always use a cleaner external supply if the one that comes with this unit is junk.
> 
> 73, Mike W4EF.........................
> 
> On 1/30/2022 11:03 AM, David Eckhardt wrote:
>> There is a standard FCC paragraph required for all Part 15, Class B
>> (Home and Small Office) products.  It's required by FCC.   No big thing.
>>
>> Here is the required statement:
>>
>> This equipment has been tested and found to comply with the limits for
>> a Class B digital device, pursuant to part 15 of the FCC Rules. These
>> limits are designed to provide reasonable protection against harmful
>> interference in a residential installation. This equipment generates,
>> uses and can radiate radio frequency energy and, if not installed and
>> used in accordance with the instructions, may cause harmful
>> interference to radio communications. However, there is no guarantee
>> that interference will not occur in a particular installation. If this
>> equipment does cause harmful interference to radio or television
>> reception, which can be determined by turning the equipment off and
>> on, the user is encouraged to try to correct the interference by one
>> or more of the following measures:
>>
>>    * Reorient or relocate the receiving antenna.
>>    * Increase the separation between the equipment and receiver.
>>    * Connect the equipment into an outlet on a circuit different from
>>      that to which the receiver is connected.
>>    * Consult the dealer or an experienced radio/TV technician for help.
>>
>>
>> Dave - WØLEV
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 6:56 PM Michael Tope <W4EF at dellroy.com> wrote:
>>
>>      I have a couple of south facing security cameras that I  have tucked
>>      under the soffits of my high desert cabin so they don't get baked
>>      by the
>>      high desert sun. The tradeoff for this is that I am getting glare off
>>      the soffit from the camera's built-in IR LED arrays which spoils the
>>      night vision image quality. I am thinking of purchasing some
>>      external IR
>>      LED arrays to solve this problem.
>>
>>      I found a positive review of this illuminator, but I got a little
>>      worried when I saw the FCC part 15 warning prominently displayed
>>      in the
>>      user manual:
>>
>>      
>> https://www.amazon.com/CMVision-IRP12-850nm-WideAngle-Power-Illuminato
>> r/dp/B00Q156IPE/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1503002750&sr=8-1&keywords
>> =irp12-850&linkCode=sl1&tag=stf03-20&linkId=1ea87920d2d4d067e723c31001
>> 82acbe
>>      
>> <https://www.amazon.com/CMVision-IRP12-850nm-WideAngle-Power-Illuminat
>> or/dp/B00Q156IPE/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1503002750&sr=8-1&keyword
>> s=irp12-850&linkCode=sl1&tag=stf03-20&linkId=1ea87920d2d4d067e723c3100
>> 182acbe>
>>
>>      I am not aware of any interference from the IR LED arrays that are
>>      built
>>      into the cameras, but just in case these illuminators are more
>>      problematic I thought I would run this by the reflector before I
>>      press
>>      the "add to cart" button.
>>
>>      Thanks,
>>
>>      Mike W4EF.................
>>
> 
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