[RTTY] CQ-Contest SO2R

Joe Subich, W4TV w4tv at subich.com
Mon Sep 17 19:53:53 EDT 2007


Paul, 

The SO2R operator is just like every other entrant in the Single 
Operator entry class - he is limited by the same six band changes 
per clock hour rule.  The "six band changes per hour" rule only 
applies to multi-single (multi-operator/single transmitter) 
classes and is intended to prevent a multi-multi from using an 
interlock ("octopus") and competing against multi-single stations. 

If contest sponsors want to "level the playing field" (and cripple 
the SO2R operating technique) band change limits  - e.g., the six 
band changes per clock hour rule - is the best way to do it.  
However, if a sponsor wants to attract the maximum number of 
entrants, a six band change per hour rule will kill participation 
as there are many operators - both "one radio" and "two radio" 
operators who will not bother to turn in a log if the contest 
has a band change limit.  
  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Cavanaugh [mailto:paulcavanaugh at cox.net] 
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:32 PM
> To: 'Joe Subich, W4TV'; 'Tom Moore'; rtty at contesting.com
> Subject: RE: [RTTY] CQ-Contest SO2R
> 
> 
> Here is the problem with SOR2, some contests limit band 
> changes (usually
> 6/hr). If you are calling CQ on 20, listening to 15, and work 
> me on 20, and
> then work someone else on 15, go back and answer another call 
> on 20, you
> just did 3 band changes. It doesn't take long to violate the 
> 6 band changes
> / hr rule. This is my biggest objection to SOR2 being in the 
> SO Class. You
> want to run SOR2, then make that a separate class. If a SO 
> makes more band
> changes than the rules allow, they are penalized, and 
> therefore so should
> the SOR2 operator, if they operate under the SO rules. Quite 
> frankly I do
> believe that SOR2 is just a way to beat out another person 
> who works a band
> at a time. No BS about propagation, skill, or whatever. I 
> have two radios
> and two antennas, what are you going to do about it. If 
> nothing else, if it
> is about skill then shouldn't you be competing against other 
> SOR2 and not
> SO.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth.
> Paul
> W1HY
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rtty-bounces at contesting.com 
> [mailto:rtty-bounces at contesting.com] On
> Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:02 PM
> To: 'Tom Moore'; rtty at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RTTY] CQ-Contest SO2R
> 
> 
> Tom, 
> 
> > Please consider this:
> > 
> > WHEN ALL ELSE IS EQUAL
> 
> You can't make that argument - period.  All else is NEVER equal. 
> 
> Alternatively: when all else is equal take two identical, extremely 
> competent expertly skilled CW operators with identical CW stations 
> and identical propagation.  Limit one to 10 WPM and allow the other 
> to operate at 40 WPM.  The operator capable of 40 WPM operation will
> trash the 10 WPM operator simply because he can make a QSO in 1/4 
> the time that it takes an operator at 10 WPM. 
> 
> It's skill, skill, and nothing but skill.  I don't care whether 
> the skill is understanding propagation and knowing the operating 
> habits of the rare DX station like K3ZO (who doesn't, to the best 
> of my knowledge, operate SO2R), "bionic ears" like other well 
> known low band experts, or the ability to multi-task at a level 
> beyond mere mortals like some other top operators.  
> 
> Every top operator uses the tools available to him to achieve the 
> top score.  If you would deny a certain group of top operators 
> the right to participate against ALL single operator stations 
> because one of the tools they choose is SO2R, then I maintain 
> that you must deny others the same right because their tool of 
> choice is big antennas; you must deny still others that right 
> because their tool of choice is QRQ; you must provide a schedule 
> that says each operator must operate only on 20 meters at a 
> certain time and every operator must switch to 40 meters at 
> the me time; of course you must prohibit operation during the 
> rare long-path or gray-line openings that only a few seasoned 
> propagation experts know about.  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rtty-bounces at contesting.com 
> > [mailto:rtty-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom Moore
> > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 4:57 PM
> > To: rtty at contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [RTTY] CQ-Contest SO2R
> > 
> > 
> > Please consider this:
> > 
> > WHEN ALL ELSE IS EQUAL
> > 
> > Take two identical, extremely competent, expertly skilled 
> > SO2R ops with 
> > identical SO2R stations in the same propagional locale (lets 
> > just say two 
> > AA5AU's). Drop one back to SO1R only. In 'any' contest then, 
> > the SO2R op 
> > will win hands down, by a considerable margin - by as much as 
> > 40% according 
> > to AA5AU.  This 'fact' has been acknowledged publicly my most 
> > of the top 
> > SO2R ops. To say or suggest otherwise is simply to say 
> they, the real 
> > experts, are wrong.
> > 
> > "When all else is equal", I believe, is the reasoning contest 
> > sponsors 
> > implemented the HP and LP categories. Though they failed to 
> > consider the 
> > difference between 500, 1000 or 1500 watt amplifiers which I 
> > feel sure was 
> > at one time or another a big rub for some contesters. 
> Sponsors didn't 
> > consider these differences, I suspect, simply because of the 
> > administrative 
> > burden of making yet additional categories and the time and 
> > paperwork to 
> > score the contests (this was way before computerized log checking).
> > 
> > Yes, its very possible for an SO1R op to beat an SO2R op. 
> > Being SO2R does 
> > not automatically mean you'll be in the top 10, top 20 or 
> > even top 100. What 
> > it does mean is, that when done efficiently, it will increase 
> > YOUR score - 
> > significantly. Yes, it takes skill as does the successful 
> > competitive use of 
> > any additional station equipment. But its no big secret. Its 
> > been proven 
> > time and again that if you can be competitive as SO1R, you 
> > will be more 
> > competitive as SO2R when you develop and learn the necessary 
> > skills - again, 
> > which is true for the application and use of any new station 
> > equipment. Said 
> > another way: If you have the intelligence to be a competitive 
> > SO1R op, you 
> > have the ability to acquire the skills to be a competitive 
> > SO2R op. You just 
> > don't have to be a rocket scientest to do this. I highly 
> > encourage those, 
> > who can, to pursure becoming a competitive SO1R and 
> subsequently SO2R 
> > operator.
> > 
> > When all else is equal
> > 
> > Inevitably it follows: well what about antennas and antenna 
> > height. This 
> > might well be a logical concern in some contests, 
> > particularly DX contests. 
> > However, I've seen 50' tribanders out perform 100 ft monobanders in 
> > stateside contests due to high vs low angle of radiation. I 
> > have also seen 
> > verticals out perform low tribanders for the same reason. 
> Wires have 
> > outperformed verticals and tribanders depending on height, 
> > take-off angle 
> > and contest variables etc. And then there's location. East 
> > coasts stations 
> > don't need as good antennas as west coast stations when 
> > working Europe. And 
> > every body knows about the 'black hole' of the midwest, 
> > right? It seems to 
> > me it would be virtually impossible to even come close to 
> > defining contest 
> > categories based on antenna type and height.
> > 
> > Contest rules are the sponsors decision. None of them are 
> > 'fair' nor will 
> > they ever be. They could not possibly be; simply because of 
> > the 'volumes' it 
> > would take to define them. Look at the ARRL's rules which 
> are already 
> > ridiculously lengthy. Some contest sponsors have implemented 
> > the 10 min band 
> > change rule while others have implemented the 'expert', 
> > 'unlimited' etc 
> > categories. Others have 'assisted' and 'unassisted'. And, 
> > thank goodness, 
> > most all are different in one way or another. And, of course, 
> > the ole saying 
> > still applies: "If ya don't like the rules, nobody's makin 
> > you come to the 
> > game". Others say: "but I do like it but I think the rules 
> > need changing a 
> > bit". (Heck, look at congress and the crazy way they make new 
> > and change old 
> > laws). Most rules are unenforceable. There's hardly any way 
> > to catch anyone 
> > for violation of any rule so everything pretty much has to be 
> > on the honor 
> > system. If you think someone's cheating, provide the evidence 
> > and demand 
> > they be disqualified.
> > 
> > When all else is equal
> > 
> > In recent years, the use of SO2R has grown significantly. In 
> > 2003, I took 
> > 1st place CQWPX RTTY USA SOABLP and CQWW RTTY North America 
> > SOABLP both 
> > running SO1R. Both were a fluke because most of the SO2R top 
> > dogs ran in the 
> > HP or assisted categories. In 2004, I made it up to 3rd place 
> > SOABLP SO1R in 
> > the ARRL RTTY Roundup. I certainly don't consider myself to 
> > be a great or 
> > expert operator, just a tad above good. But now its more 
> > abundantly clear 
> > than ever. If I want to be competitive in the Single Op 
> > category, I'm going 
> > to have to move up to the SO2R capability. I'm in the process 
> > of doing that 
> > now but not because I think I can be more competitive. I've 
> > already done it 
> > with dummy loads, radios, software and computer. But the 
> > remaining problems 
> > are costs involved with buying amplifiers, tower, antenna, 
> > SO2R box, filters 
> > or building effective stubs, getting as much antenna 
> > separation as possible, 
> > etc. Will I ever be a competitive SO2R opr. Not likely. Not 
> > because I'm not 
> > smart enough or don't have the money to acquire the equipment 
> > I think I need 
> > or want; but more importantly, because I'm just plain ole 
> > gettin old! I 
> > don't have the eye/hand coordination I  did just a year or 
> > two ago; can't 
> > stay awake for even a 24 hr event; and all the other 'old 
> > people' reasons. 
> > But I'll have fun and who knows, I might even be a bit 
> > competitive in a few 
> > contests a year. But as someone recently quoted somebody else 
> > at Dayton this 
> > year, "contesting is for young folks"!
> > 
> > When all else is equal
> > 
> > Yes, I believe there should be separate SO1R, SO2R 
> > categories. I'm not 
> > against SO2R. I'm probably one of the biggest admirers and 
> > supporters of 
> > SO2R.  I don't understand why some people are taking this 
> subject so 
> > personally. Nor do I understand what the big deal is. Its a 
> > very simple 
> > addition of just one category. With today's computerized 
> > scoring, it'd be 
> > easy. It hurts no one. It leaves out no one. What it does do 
> > is raise the 
> > bar for SO1R ops. It just might make them want to try a 
> > little bit harder; 
> > get us a few more contestors; and subsequently more QSO's for 
> > the SO2R ops. 
> > There's nothing to loose and everything to gain!
> > 
> > Everybody has an opinion. Opinions are free. I respect 
> > people's opinion as 
> > long as they don't personally attack or slander anyone else's 
> > opinion. When 
> > you google my callsign WX4TM, also google my ex call KL7Q. 
> > You'll see I've 
> > participated in a lot of RTTY contests; not as many as some, 
> > but alot. As 
> > you do, google the calls and ex calls of the experts who have 
> > strenuously 
> > approved or opposed separate SO1R SO2R categories on this 
> > reflector and be 
> > curious about what and why these opinions are what they are 
> > or seem to be. 
> > Do they (or I for that matter) really know what we're talking 
> > about?  HI HI 
> > You draw your own opinion....When all else is equal
> > 
> > 73
> > 
> > Happy Contesting, see ya in CQWW - if I can stay awake long enough
> > 
> > Tom WX4TM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > RTTY at contesting.com
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> > 
> > 
> 
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