[RTTY] Cheating

Thu Jun 17 07:15:23 PDT 2010

I like the knowledgeable debating over controversial issues. Real information can be found by reading it. 
A few poorly chosen words in the heat of debate don't bother me at all. People need to realize that their complaints about this debate can be annoying too.

Bill N3XL

________________________________
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Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 9:52:02 AM
Subject: RTTY Digest, Vol 90, Issue 44

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Cheating - (No Scratch that make it - "Whining") (Bill, W6WRT)
  2. Won First Plaque (Tom Martin)
  3. Re: 75 Baud (Robert Chudek - K0RC)
  4. Re: Cheating - (No Scratch that make it - "Whining")
      (Joe Subich, W4TV)
  5. Re: W6WRT is correct... (Bill, W6WRT)
  6. Re: W6WRT is correct... (Jim Reisert AD1C)
  7. Re: W6WRT is correct... (Dan Thompson)
  8. Re: 75 Baud (Jim W7RY)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:36:33 -0700
From: "Bill, W6WRT" <dezrat1242 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] Cheating - (No Scratch that make it - "Whining")
To: "RTTY" <rtty at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <pu5j16teracb3uvhcbdcuoa3so3c40p2mn at 4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:46:30 -0700, "Tom Osborne" <w7why at verizon.net>
wrote:

>I think these arguments should be settled out in the parking lot :-)  Or at 
>least with posts to eachother off the list.
>
>Usually, if I really dissagree with someone, I take it up with private 
>emails.

REPLY:

Normally I agree, but if someone posts something in public that really
needs to be refuted, what good does it do to refute in private?

73, Bill W6WRT

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:07:50 -0500
From: "Tom Martin" <tmartin at chartermi.net>
Subject: [RTTY] Won First Plaque
To: <rtty at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <6A05E7F08D50465F9B163AA73D50A314 at hcdiuser224148>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I might as well inform the group that I, too, won my first plaque.  After many second place finishes to AB8K, and first place Michigan certificates, I finally won the Great Lakes Division High Power plaque.  

Thanks to the Southwest Ohio DX Assn. for sponsoring the plaque.

I'd like to thank Don for his SO2R expertise.  Reading his web page and comments in here, got me into SO2R a few years ago.  Also, his review of the Icom Pro III for RTTY led me to get the Pro II this year.  I believe that having the Pro II helped a great deal, compared to the old FT-990.

I'm still amazed that Don had 1, 732 contacts with low power to my 935 contacts with high power.  Skill plus location, location, location will do it every time. 

73,

Tom W8JWN Iron Mountain, Michigan in the U.P.

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 00:36:44 -0500
From: "Robert Chudek - K0RC" <k0rc at citlink.net>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] 75 Baud
To: <RTTY at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <0B0772A951564421AB325A21627B8A3A at GX620A>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

Let's remove the clutter and simplify the original statement to:

"<Item of choice>" is like putting Lime in Beer. Interesting, but not 
needed. Beer is fine the way it is.

Now choose your "item of choice" to insert in the above statement:

A second antenna
Computer logging
No-tune PA output
Stacked yagis
An RF Amplifier
A better radio
An electronic keyer
Some DSP filters
High quality coax
A Solid State Amplifier
A better QTH
(Add your favorites here)

Does this statement really make any sense to you?

Technology would not evolve if everyone believed "X" is fine the way it is. 
For example, AM evolved into SSB. Do you remember the ruckus during this 
technology transition period? What voice mode do you use on your radios 
today? Apparently the beer wasn't fine the way it was. Just remember this 
catch phrase... "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated." Technology 
will move steadily forward, whether you think it is "fine" or not.

Maybe you can take some comfort in knowing the majority of previous amateur 
"modes" remain in use today (excluding spark). SSB replaced AM, but there's 
still an AM position on your radio. PSK has become the most popular digital 
mode, but RTTY remains the king of contesting. If 75 Baudot or ASCII RTTY 
provides an overall improvement to the contest experience and scores, it 
will be added to the arsenal of other innovations that have been adopted 
over the years.

73 de Bob - K?RC in MN

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "W5CPT" <w5cpt at bellsouth.net>
To: "Vladimir Sidorov" <vs.lists at gmail.com>; <RTTY at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [RTTY] 75 Baud

> 75 Baud RTTY is like putting Lime in Beer. Interesting, but not needed. 
> Beer (like 45 Baud RTTY) is fine the way it is.
>
> Clint - W5CPT
>
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Vladimir Sidorov
>  To: RTTY at contesting.com
>  Sent: 16 June, 2010 5:41 PM
>  Subject: [RTTY] 75 Baud
>
>
>  Gents,
>
>  Please be more careful with what we already have by now, i.e the 45 Baud
>  RTTY. This mode is very well established and popular. Moreover, it sits
>  firmly in some radios' hardware. Now that there are more and more talks
>  about the magic 75 Baud one, we have already seen a semi-DX-pedition
>  declaring 75 Baud RTTY "to work them all faster", then a new full-size 75
>  Baud Sprint and finally a recent invitation to play 75 Baud in the Field
>  Day. What's next? It might be another message which we have already seen
>  here in the list, like if the RTTY (OK, the 75 Baud one) performance is 
> like
>  this, then "why bother"? And back to FD, I just recall somebody's report 
> of
>  RTTY introduction to newbies during the FD using a Pro3 without a PC. Now 
> if
>  the Pro3 cannot catch RTTY by its own built-in RTTY decoder, then again, 
> why
>  bother? The newbies may simply turn into bye-byes.
>  I for one bought a Pro3 to have an instant RTTY machine to catch RTTY DX
>  quickest possible, without spending time for PC boot, etc. It the 75 Baud
>  development is pushed so hard, the Pro3 will turn just into a dust
>  collector.
>
>  As for the 45 Baud RTTY in contesting, its slower speed just brings up
>  another great operator's challenge, how to handle both the slow speed and
>  the extensive pile-up in the same time...
>
>  Experiments with 75 Baud are fine, but not for an account of the 
> mainstream
>  45 Baud RTTY, please.
>
>  Sorry, just could not resist.
>
>  73,
>  Vladimir VE3IAE
>
>  --- 
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  RTTY mailing list
>  RTTY at contesting.com
>  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty
> _______________________________________________
> RTTY mailing list
> RTTY at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty 

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 02:01:00 -0400
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists at subich.com>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] Cheating - (No Scratch that make it - "Whining")
To: W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu at w0mu.com>, rtty at contesting.com
Message-ID: <4C19BA1C.5010105 at subich.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Mike,

My replies to Bill were only in response to his whinny "I don't want
to have to compete against 'their kind'" nonsense.  Like SO2R or not,
use SO2R or not, operators who use SO2R are just as much a single
operator as the guy with an IC-718 and AV-640 on the back deck.  SO2R
operators should not be prevented from competing against other single
operator stations any more someone who has a tribander at 70 feet
should be prevented from competing with those of us who are limited
to verticals and low wires.

If one does not like SO2R as it is currently structured, the alternative 
is to convince contest sponsors to adopt band change
limits (e.g., "n" band changes per clock hour) or a "10 minute
rule."  Such rules significantly limit the "advantage" of SO2R
techniques while applying the same rules to all.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV

On 6/16/2010 7:01 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
> I guess badgering and being obnoxious is not only limited to post made by
> W4TV.
>
> If all hams had your attitude Ham Radio would have died before it started.
>
> And I thought we were ambassadors of goodwill.
>
> Bill I think you need to use the delete key more and find a more fire proof
> suit OM.
>
>
> CC Packet Cluster W0MU-1
> W0MU.NET or  67.40.148.194
>
> "A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may
> never get over." Ben Franklin
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 03:00:39 -0700
From: "Bill, W6WRT" <dezrat1242 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] W6WRT is correct...
To: rtty at contesting.com
Message-ID: <d9sj165tcj3naoclokj05254415vhvidku at 4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:23:44 -0700, Gary McAdams
<g.m.mcadams at comcast.net> wrote:

>
>Leadership comes from the top... Indulging in the endless arguments like 
>this certainly drives folks away.

REPLY:

In the last year, membership of the reflector has increased from the
mid-900s to the mid-1000s.

73, Bill W6WRT

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 06:47:47 -0600
From: Jim Reisert AD1C <jjreisert at alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] W6WRT is correct...
To: dezrat1242 at yahoo.com
Cc: RTTY Reflector <rtty at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4C1A1973.2030402 at alum.mit.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 6/17/2010 4:00 AM, Bill, W6WRT wrote:

>> Leadership comes from the top... Indulging in the endless arguments like
>> this certainly drives folks away.
>
> REPLY:
>
> In the last year, membership of the reflector has increased from the
> mid-900s to the mid-1000s.

Bill, that statement doesn't tell the full story because it does not 
break out attrition.  The list could have added 400 new members, but 
lost 300 original members.  Surely that's an exaggeration, but no 
commercial enterprise or political candidate likes to lose members of 
their core base.  And one doesn't want to drive away newcomers into the 
fold, who *thought* this aspect of the hobby could be fun, but quickly 
tired of all the bickering.

73 - Jim AD1C

-- 
Jim Reisert AD1C, <jjreisert at alum.mit.edu>, http://www.ad1c.us

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:39:49 -0400
From: "Dan Thompson" <w4uh at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] W6WRT is correct...
To: <rtty at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <872CDDD3E6744CB8A427399DA76E399B at LENOVOAB7C06AF>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

To whom it may concern:

I just joined this reflector about two weeks ago after deciding that I would
like to get more involved in RTTY contesting and I thought that this
reflector would help me learn many things. With all of the bickering going
on I have stayed silent, but I can no longer do that.

I really looked forward to great insight and knowledge from this reflector
(that you normally get on the other reflectors) that would help me and a
couple of others that I have been helping cultivate an interest in RTTY
contesting. I believe I have made a mistake and should pull the plug on this
nonsense today! With a few exceptions, the things that I have learned so far
are how to be childish, rude, and unprofessional. Right now I would be
embarrassed to recommend this reflector to anyone.

If this nonsense continues on it will cause harm to all of us. For the sake
of setting the proper example for the others that might be joining this
reflector and the sport of RTTY contesting, please stop the bickering and
get back to the purpose of this reflector. My delete button is wearing out!

Thanks so much for your consideration in this matter.

73,
Dan W4UH  

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 06:51:57 -0700
From: Jim W7RY <jimw7ry at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] 75 Baud
To: Robert Chudek - K0RC <k0rc at citlink.net>
Cc: RTTY at contesting.com
Message-ID:
    <AANLkTimc2tUpc09yswLgJrPtwrOUZmG5b6VjS3FiLf5O at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Then how do you explain the popularity of CW Bob? Have you ever listened to
the CW portion of the band during a contest weekend?

Why hasn't EVERYONE moved to some fancy new digital mode instead of CW?

73
Jim W7RY

On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Robert Chudek - K0RC <k0rc at citlink.net>wrote:

> Let's remove the clutter and simplify the original statement to:
>
> "<Item of choice>" is like putting Lime in Beer. Interesting, but not
> needed. Beer is fine the way it is.
>
> Now choose your "item of choice" to insert in the above statement:
>
> A second antenna
> Computer logging
> No-tune PA output
> Stacked yagis
> An RF Amplifier
> A better radio
> An electronic keyer
> Some DSP filters
> High quality coax
> A Solid State Amplifier
> A better QTH
> (Add your favorites here)
>
> Does this statement really make any sense to you?
>
> Technology would not evolve if everyone believed "X" is fine the way it is.
> For example, AM evolved into SSB. Do you remember the ruckus during this
> technology transition period? What voice mode do you use on your radios
> today? Apparently the beer wasn't fine the way it was. Just remember this
> catch phrase... "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated." Technology
> will move steadily forward, whether you think it is "fine" or not.
>
> Maybe you can take some comfort in knowing the majority of previous amateur
> "modes" remain in use today (excluding spark). SSB replaced AM, but there's
> still an AM position on your radio. PSK has become the most popular digital
> mode, but RTTY remains the king of contesting. If 75 Baudot or ASCII RTTY
> provides an overall improvement to the contest experience and scores, it
> will be added to the arsenal of other innovations that have been adopted
> over the years.
>
> 73 de Bob - K?RC in MN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "W5CPT" <w5cpt at bellsouth.net>
> To: "Vladimir Sidorov" <vs.lists at gmail.com>; <RTTY at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [RTTY] 75 Baud
>
>
> > 75 Baud RTTY is like putting Lime in Beer. Interesting, but not needed.
> > Beer (like 45 Baud RTTY) is fine the way it is.
> >
> > Clint - W5CPT
> >
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> >  From: Vladimir Sidorov
> >  To: RTTY at contesting.com
> >  Sent: 16 June, 2010 5:41 PM
> >  Subject: [RTTY] 75 Baud
> >
> >
> >  Gents,
> >
> >  Please be more careful with what we already have by now, i.e the 45 Baud
> >  RTTY. This mode is very well established and popular. Moreover, it sits
> >  firmly in some radios' hardware. Now that there are more and more talks
> >  about the magic 75 Baud one, we have already seen a semi-DX-pedition
> >  declaring 75 Baud RTTY "to work them all faster", then a new full-size
> 75
> >  Baud Sprint and finally a recent invitation to play 75 Baud in the Field
> >  Day. What's next? It might be another message which we have already seen
> >  here in the list, like if the RTTY (OK, the 75 Baud one) performance is
> > like
> >  this, then "why bother"? And back to FD, I just recall somebody's report
> > of
> >  RTTY introduction to newbies during the FD using a Pro3 without a PC.
> Now
> > if
> >  the Pro3 cannot catch RTTY by its own built-in RTTY decoder, then again,
> > why
> >  bother? The newbies may simply turn into bye-byes.
> >  I for one bought a Pro3 to have an instant RTTY machine to catch RTTY DX
> >  quickest possible, without spending time for PC boot, etc. It the 75
> Baud
> >  development is pushed so hard, the Pro3 will turn just into a dust
> >  collector.
> >
> >  As for the 45 Baud RTTY in contesting, its slower speed just brings up
> >  another great operator's challenge, how to handle both the slow speed
> and
> >  the extensive pile-up in the same time...
> >
> >  Experiments with 75 Baud are fine, but not for an account of the
> > mainstream
> >  45 Baud RTTY, please.
> >
> >  Sorry, just could not resist.
> >
> >  73,
> >  Vladimir VE3IAE
> >
> >  ---
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  RTTY mailing list
> >  RTTY at contesting.com
> >  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty
> > _______________________________________________
> > RTTY mailing list
> > RTTY at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty
>
> _______________________________________________
> RTTY mailing list
> RTTY at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty
>

------------------------------

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