[RTTY] Contester preference - 1- versus 2-decimal-place spots

Thu Oct 15 13:05:55 EDT 2015

Not even being such a good DXer or Contest operator. But doing those 
last events almost anytime as assisted I wouldn't care at all of the 
second digit on RTTY spots.
A well known part of the S&P is to understand who is where and what's 
going on. The second digit, would sound almost as any tracking of 
(I)W3RUA or (I)W1AYD. Just a deep enough look at on a spot it's a slice 
of my multipliers, or simple callers, search job.
I could understand that it is much more easy to keep up with pseudo 
common worldwide frequency standard than to a de facto AI of the 
software code. But adding a second digit with a 50% probability of 
errors is almost unneeded.
MMTTY filter provide enough audio bandwidth when not too tightened. The 
2Tone companion as a pure second and third demodulator have enough AFC 
to pursue successfully the job.

The more elusive and thinnest signal get already decoded applying more 
attention  to filters type and bandwidth than to AFC. In some conditions 
- and with some radios - even the best signal scare the AFC. It is OFF 
here all the time.

When RUNning I have the CLARIFY  on all the time. Now that also ICOM had 
finally understood the need of a CAT CLEAR RIT command for it it's more 
easy for who own one of those newest RTX.
Peoples that come on me are quite never, half of the times, dead on 
locked on my tones. Adding a second digit will not help all that. Having 
the clarify engaged, a responsive operator and some right setup for the 
decoders filters is much more helping.
Anyway a second decimal digit will not disrupt that practice as it would 
mean quite nothing in the real world ... of AFSK, old radio, slightly 
misaligned RTX or audio boards and so on. CLEARRITT on QSO close and CQ, 
responsive decoders and some operating skills are much more effective 
than a second digit. As it it seems much more casual than effective. And 
even if this last will not change real operation practices.

It would be different having the software ability to track QRG of spots 
and correct it on the fly knowing theirs constant error on it. But there 
is not that much of QSO number gain.

It seems to that the there is a poor ratio  of the added complications 
having it versus the effectiveness of having it. On both sides, S&P and RUN.

That's not a scientific response, you see, no math here.

      73 de iw1ayd

PS anyway with all those peoples calling in as IW1AYD IW1AYD DE MYCALL 
MYCALL MYCALL  it wouldn't never be a problem to crank all the ways up 
and down the RIT to catch that elusive signal. Isn't?

On 15/10/2015 18:00, rtty-request at contesting.com wrote:
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:37:24 -0500
> From: "Jeff AC0C"<keepwalking188 at ac0c.com>
> To:<ed at w0yk.com>,	"'Pete Smith N4ZR'"<n4zr at contesting.com>
> Cc: "'RTTY Contesting'"<RTTY at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RTTY] Contester preference - 1- versus 2-decimal-place
> 	spots
> Message-ID: <54F42A3C7E1A4F74BC09804A7E66919E at w520>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> It's probably even more important to the average RTTY contester who cannot
> run as much as he would like, for whatever reason.
>
> 73/jeff/ac0c
> www.ac0c.com
> alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Muns
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:08 PM
> To: 'Jeff AC0C' ; 'Pete Smith N4ZR'
> Cc: 'RTTY Contesting'
> Subject: Re: [RTTY] Contester preference - 1- versus 2-decimal-place spots
>
> Good point about AFC.  I abhor that feature and never use it, so don't
> consider it much.  To the extent spots are accurate to 2 decimal points
> relative to the radio, then AFC would benefit S&P by reducing manual tuning.
> I still shutter at the thought of this.   ;>)
>
> Ed W0YK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RTTY [mailto:rtty-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jeff AC0C
> Sent: 14 October, 2015 12:16
> To:ed at w0yk.com; 'Pete Smith N4ZR'
> Cc: 'RTTY Contesting'
> Subject: Re: [RTTY] Contester preference - 1- versus 2-decimal-place spots
>
> There are several issues being comingled here.
>
> I think that the absolute accuracy of the spot is more important.  If you
> are running S&P assisted, and the spots are accurate, then with a tight AFC
> you don't have to hunt and rate is higher.  So in this case the 2nd DP is a
> benefit here.  But if the spot tolerance is already sloppy, then a 2nd DP is
>
> of no benefit.
>
> As for the length of the pass frequency resolution, that's something that
> the logger should really let you specify because in RTTY, 0.1 may be FB but
> the same logger running CW probably would want that 2nd DP.  Of course Ed is
>
> THE MAN and so I will definitely take his word that 0.X is better in RTTY
> than 0.XX.
>
> 73/jeff/ac0c
> www.ac0c.com
> alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Muns
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 1:59 PM
> To: 'Pete Smith N4ZR'
> Cc: 'RTTY Contesting'
> Subject: Re: [RTTY] Contester preference - 1- versus 2-decimal-place spots
>
> Any spot should simply be a starting point to tune in, copy and validate the
> transmitting station's call sign.  In less than 30 minutes, a new RTTY
> operator should be able to develop the skill to tune in a signal by ear to
> within 10-20 Hz in a second or two.  No different than zero-beating on CW by
> ear.  That's good enough for most RTTY decoders.
>
> Therefore, 2-decimal point spots are overkill and distracting.  The operator
> has to ignore/discard/round off the second decimal position if manual
> tuning.  Automatic spot tuning has no benefit from the second decimal.  One
> decimal point is plenty of resolution for finding and IDing a spot.  For the
> same reasons it is the optimum resolution for passing a QSY frequency, i.e.,
> either 14083.7 or 14083.8 is better than 14083.76.
>
> Ed W0YK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RTTY [mailto:rtty-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Pete Smith N4ZR
> Sent: 13 October, 2015 18:44
> To: RTTY Contesting
> Subject: [RTTY] Contester preference - 1- versus 2-decimal-place spots
>
> I'm doing some analysis of RTTY spots made by RBN nodes reporting 2
> decimal place frequencies.  Some of them I know to be using GPS
> disciplined oscillators, while others aren't.  The GPSDO stations
> generally agree within 10 Hz, and are probably better than that because
> of rounding errors.  The others are surprisingly good, almost always
> within the ± 0.1 KHz we seek generally from RBN nodes.
>
> My questions:  Do assisted RTTY contesters like to get 2-decimal spots?
> Or are they so used to 1-decimal spots that they automatically joggle
> tuning to get on the proper mark and space frequencies?
>
> And... are inaccurate 2-decimal spots (still within ±1-decimal
> tolerance) worse than 1-decimal, or essentially the same from an
> operational perspective?
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
> <http://N1MM.hamdocs.com>. Check
> out the Reverse Beacon Network at
> <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:40:59 -0700
> From: "Dave Hachadorian"<k6ll.dave at gmail.com>
> To: "reflector RTTY"<rtty at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RTTY] Contester preference - 1- versus 2-decimal-place
> 	spots
> Message-ID: <209DF11BB45A482196330F29F264B8AD at Toshiba>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It's pretty easy to tune stations exactly using the arrow keys.  Of course, RIT needs to be off, as it should be in S&P.
>
> I use numpad keys 1,2,4 and 5 for nextmult-otherradio-bandmap and nextqso-otherradio-bandmap, so my fingers are already over there near the arrow keys.
>
> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> Yuma, AZ
>