[SCCC] FW: Ice 419 support questions

[Timothy Coker]

Thought this might be interesting reading for anyone thinking about SO2R in
the future. I had no trouble hearing stations when using 20/40, 40/80 or
80/20 combinations during the Sprint SSB this past weekend using an A4S, 40m
Dipole and 80m Bazooka all within 15 feet of one another, using low power.
Briefly tested legal limit on 20/40 and the Ice 419's handled the job well.
Will be interesting to see how the C31XR with separate feed lines works out.

Anyone out there tested the W3NQN's and Ice filters side by side or have a
feel for the difference between them?

Timothy Coker N6WIN
Instrument Pilot
http://www.timcoker.com/
mailto:n6win@arrl.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Terleski [mailto:jayt@arraysolutions.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 10:30 AM
To: Timothy Coker
Cc: Natan Huffman
Subject: Re: Ice 419 support questions

Tim,

ICE filters are rated for 200 W ICS, which should be fine.  Second
harmonics will be down ~40 db which also should be ok for the power
reflected back down the feedline at the harmonic.

But the worst case is how far down is rejection from 20m to 15 and 15 to
10m.  The charts of ICE show -20 dB. So if Natan says you have 100W of
20m energy coming back on the 15m feedline, then -10 db down would be
10W and another -10db would tak it to 1 watt into the front end of your
15m radio.

I think most radios can handle this. But wide band phase noise hash may
affect you being able to hear on 15.

If you want the very best rejection go with the W3NQN filters. We have
several C31 stack installs, like VE3JF, who are succesfully doing M/M
from his stack of 3 C31XRs with separate feed lines, and no hash getting
through.

Hi Natan, hope all is well with you. Glad to see your giving out good
customer support.

Jay

Timothy Coker wrote:
>
> Jay, I received this information below from F12 in regards to my ordering
a
> C31XR with 3 feed line option for SO2R work. The feed line run is 150
feet,
> have you found the below stated limitation of the Ice 419 to be true? If
it
> is, is there anyway to limit this from happening?
>
> Also, any updated ETA on the new band decoders that your having made?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Timothy Coker N6WIN
> Instrument Pilot
> http://www.timcoker.com/
> mailto:n6win@arrl.net
>
> Tim,
>
> You will need a balun for each feedline used, so you will need a total
> of four B1's.  Be sure HRO orders a C31XR configured for three feedlines
> as 99.9% of C31XR's are ordered in the standard one feedline version.
> There is a difference between the two models.
>
> Finally, the ICE filters are not robust enough to handle the power
> returning on the unused feedlines at legal limit.  You will see power on
> the unused feedlines easily exceeding the 100 watt rating of the ICE
> bandpass filters.
>
> Regards,
>
> Natan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Timothy Coker [mailto:res0a4ux@verizon.net]
> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 1:38 AM
> To: force12e
> Subject: RE: EF-140 Question
>
> Natan, I am ordering (through HRO) an EF-140 for home use along with a
> C31XR
> for use at contest site. I have some questions in regards to anything I
> might need in addition to what normally comes with the above mentioned
> antennas...
>
> 1.) With the C31XR I am planning to use three feed lines of RG213 for
> use of
> the antenna in SO2R operation. My intentions are to use my Ice bandpass
> filters to allow for me to use any combination of 20, 15, 10 at the same
> time on this boom. I will run legal limit at times. Do I need to buy
> three
> of your B-1 baluns to make this work?
>
> 2.) Do I need a B-1 balun for the EF-140 for home use?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Timothy Coker N6WIN
> Instrument Pilot
> http://www.timcoker.com/
> mailto:n6win@arrl.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: force12e [mailto:force12e@lightlink.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 8:16 AM
> To: 'Timothy Coker'
> Cc: Arthur
> Subject: RE: EF-140 Question
>
> Tim,
>
> If there is a tribander on the same mast, you MUST turn the EF140 so
> it's 90 degrees to the tribander.  Align the EF140 parallel with the
> boom of the TA33 to avoid the interaction you will see on both 20 and
> 15.  With the EF140 at 90 degrees, just space the 6 meter yagi
> equidistant between the 140 and TA33.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Natan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Timothy Coker [mailto:res0a4ux@verizon.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:01 AM
> To: force12e
> Subject: RE: EF-140 Question
>
> Thanks Natan, sounds like this is the right choice for me then once I
> get
> approval from the city. Last question in regards to the EF-140... will
> have
> a TA-33Jr on bottom of mast and want to fit the 6m yagi 6ft boom 3
> elements
> in between the EF-140 and the tribander. I will need to use a 7-10ft
> mast
> due to the size of property and wanting to keep antenna's on my own
> property
> when I work the tower tilted over. Currently I plan to put the EF-140 at
> the
> top and would like to know your thoughts on where the 6m should go? I
> figure
> I'll have to deal with some interaction in resonance due to the
> surrounding
> metal, but it's about all I can do for size right now.
>
> Timothy Coker N6WIN
> Instrument Pilot
> http://www.timcoker.com/
> mailto:n6win@arrl.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: force12e [mailto:force12e@lightlink.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 7:49 AM
> To: cessna.flyer@verizon.net
> Cc: Arthur
> Subject: RE: EF-140 Question
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> We do use the EF140 element in our EF240X, so a purchase of a EF140 can
> be used later when you want to upgrade to a 240X.  Right now we are
> still at 4 to 6 weeks for all products due to sales volume and with the
> upcoming contest season approaching, we won't see a lessening of lead
> time until October.
>
> Regards,
>
> Natan W6XR
> Force 12 East
> Ithaca, NY
>
> ----Original Message-----
> From: cessna.flyer@verizon.net [mailto:cessna.flyer@verizon.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 6:28 PM
> To: force12e@lightlink.com
> Subject: EF-140 Question
>
> Hi, I've started the process of getting approval from my city for a 55'
> crankup tower and currently have a Mosley TA-33Jr with 12/17 element and
> a 6m Cushcraft beam. I'd like to replace my inverted 40m dipole with
> something rotateable for 40m.
>
> I'm interested in purchasing a 40m dipole that has a turn radius of less
> than 23' and that could possibly be upgraded at a later time to one of
> your 2 or 3 element 40m beams. Is the EF-140 dipole the same element
> used on your EF-240X? I've decided that for the money/performance I
> would be interested in your C31XR, WARC-7 & EF-240X at a later time when
> I have more tower/property to work with. If possible I'd like to get one
> of the elements from the EF-240X and use it as a dipole for now.
>
> Thanks for your help, Tim N6WIN.
>
> Please also let me know about the timeframe of placing order and actual
> shipping delay.

--
Jay Terleski
Array Solutions
972 203 2008
Military Communications Systems, Phased Arrays, RF Switches, Antennas &
Towers
http://www.arraysolutions.com