[SCCC] FW: Competitive Contest Comparison - Flex vs Elecraft

Wed Aug 23 19:02:29 EDT 2017

Hi,

I think the problem with the author's attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison of the two transceivers is that he attempted to configure each so that it had all of the features/functionality (as near as possible) of the other. A better approach would be to define the functionality/performance needed (in this case for contesting since this is a contest club e-mail reflector) and then determine how and at what cost each rig could meet those requirements. Even then an important question would be whether the contester wants remote operation.

I own a K3 that has the available K3S upgrades (a K3+ ?) and think the new Flex transceivers are certainly worth considering.

73 de Bruce, WA7BNM   (bhorn at hornucopia.com)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Vernacchia" <n6ki73 at gmail.com>
To: "drpaper" <drpaper at kleega.com>
Cc: "SCCC Reflector" <sccc at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 3:28:21 PM
Subject: Re: [SCCC] FW: Competitive Contest Comparison - Flex vs Elecraft

You don't need 200 or 400 HZ filters in contests and seldom in DX pileups

On Aug 23, 2017 2:53 PM, "Dr. Howard S. White" <drpaper at kleega.com> wrote:

> I suspect the extra filters you need to add to the K3 will help in
> contests..
>
> Whereas the Flex includes them
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Howard S. White Ph.D. P. Eng., VE3GFW/K6  ex-AE6SM  KY6LA
> Website: www.ky6la.com
> "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished"
> "Ham Antennas Save Lives - Katrina, 2003 & 2007 San Diego Fires, 911"
>
>
>
> *From:* Dennis Vernacchia [mailto:n6ki73 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 23, 2017 2:44 PM
> *To:* Dr. Howard S. White
> *Cc:* SCCC Reflector
> *Subject:* RE: [SCCC] FW: Competitive Contest Comparison - Flex vs
> Elecraft
>
>
>
> Features that don't help win contests or break DX pileups....right....
>
>
>
> ;-)
>
>
>
> N6KI
>
>
>
> On Aug 23, 2017 1:55 PM, "Dr. Howard S. White" <drpaper at kleega.com> wrote:
>
> You mean the $2,190 extra for equivalent features Free Hat
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Howard S. White Ph.D. P. Eng., VE3GFW/K6  ex-AE6SM  KY6LA
> Website: www.ky6la.com
> "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished"
> "Ham Antennas Save Lives - Katrina, 2003 & 2007 San Diego Fires, 911"
>
>
>
> *From:* Dennis Vernacchia [mailto:n6ki73 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 23, 2017 1:49 PM
> *To:* Dr. Howard S. White
> *Cc:* SCCC Reflector
> *Subject:* Re: [SCCC] FW: Competitive Contest Comparison - Flex vs
> Elecraft
>
>
>
> The FREE hat pushed me over the top to select the Elecraft !
>
>
>
> ;-)
>
>
>
> N6KI
>
>
>
> On Aug 23, 2017 1:43 PM, "Dr. Howard S. White" <drpaper at kleega.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Pending arrival of the new 6000 series transceivers, I performed a
> preliminary competitive comparison of the “K3S Contester and DXer” package
> vs. a Flex-6600/Maestro package. I chose these packages to create a
> “knobbed vs knobbed” comparison among two of the best high performance
> transceivers on the market.  Neither package requires a separate computer
> for basic local and remote operations, but both need a computer to support
> some desirable capabilities.
>
> Elecraft offers the discounted package with dual receivers and several
> important options for $5900 ($300 discount) vs. $5200 for the Flex
> 6600/Maestro package (no discount).
>
> While the K3S package is excellent, the Flex 6600/Maestro duo has several
> features and capabilities that are not included in the Elecraft package.
> Accordingly, I added extra cost options to match wherever possible the
> features of the Flex-6600/Maestro package and as a result the cost of the
> K3S package rose to $8090 vs. $5200 for the Flex package (rounded amounts
> to next $5).
>
> I’ve avoided comparing raw performance specifications, leaving that to Mr.
> Sherwood and other experts to sort out and chose to focus mainly on
> operating features, options and capabilities. But, I couldn’t cover
> everything, so please pardon the absence of some distinctions between the
> two radios.   I’ve tried to carefully verify all of this information,
> however, should anyone discover an error, please let me know and it will be
> promptly corrected.
>
> K3S “Contester and DXer” package includes the following:
>
> ·        K3S-F 160-6M, 100 W Transceiver
>
> ·         Digital Voice Recorder
>
> ·         100W Internal Autotuner
>
> ·         2.8 kHz High Perf. SSB/Data Filter
>
> ·         2.1 kHz High Perf. SSB/Data Filter
>
> ·         400 Hz High Perf. CW/Data Filter
>
> ·         200 Hz High Perf. CW/Data Filter
>
> ·         High Perf. Subreceiver
>
> ·         2.8 kHz High Perf. SSB/Data Filter (for Subreceiver)
>
> ·         400 Hz High Perf. CW/Data Filter (for Subreceiver)
>
> ·         MH2 Hand Mic
>
> ·         P3 Panadapter
>
> ·         P3SVGA Video Adapter
>
> ·         Elecraft Hat
>
>
>
> The Flex-6600/Maestro package includes the following:
>
>  ·         Flex-6600 transceiver
>
> ·         Maestro control console
>
> ·         Hand microphone
>
>  Filters
>
> The Flex-6600 does nearly all RX/TX filtering in software (except RX
> preselectors and TX final bandpass) whereas the K3S employs conventional
> and crystal filters to perform the same tasks.  While the K3S package comes
> with a robust filter set, it does not include the AM/FM filter at $150.
> Narrow filter options for CW and SSB on the sub-receiver, will cost an
> additional $320. Also, for general coverage, you’ll need a bandpass filter
> for $180. Again, these filters are added to approximately match the
> capabilities of the Flex-6600.
>
> Remote Operations
>
> The Flex-6600/Maestro duo is designed for native remote LAN/WAN
> operations, supporting nearly all functions with tactile and touch-screen
> controls and a high resolution panadapter/spectrum display. The Maestro can
> connect to a network via Ethernet cable or Wifi, while the radio is
> connected with Ethernet cable only. Also, the 6600 can be operated remotely
> without the Maestro using SmartSDR 2.0 software (SmartLink) on a Windows or
> IOS computer connected to your LAN or the Internet.
>
> The K3S requires a package of hardware for remote operations and provides
> no remote panadapter display support.  The equipment includes RemoteRig
> gear for $500, K3/0 mini control head for $700, plus cables and power
> supply, totaling $1320. Unfortunately, the RemoteRig control site box does
> not support WiFi.
>
> Band Coverage
>
> Both radios provide standard TX support for 160m-6m, while the K3S can
> support 2m with an optional board (not included in package).  Both radios
> have standard transverter I/O ports.
>
> The K3S can monitor two bands and display spectrum for one band with the
> P3, while the 6600 can monitor up to four bands (slices) and display the
> spectrum for each on four separate panadapters (two on Maestro).  Both
> provide general coverage (includes 630m and 2200m bands), but this
> capability requires an optional filter with the K3S package. The Flex
> covers down to 30 khz while the K3S covers down to 100 khz.
>
> Both radios have dual receivers with separate antenna inputs and support
> diversity reception.
>
> Panadapter/Spectrum Display
>
> The P3 display is small (4.5” approx.) with poor resolution (480x272) and
> limited 200 khz bandwidth, while the Maestro display is much larger (8”),
> has higher resolution (1280x800), numerous touch-screen controls and covers
> up to 14 mhz bandwidth.
>
> The P3 as optioned supports an external monitor while the Maestro does
> not. Of course, the Flex provides native support for high resolution
> monitors at no extra cost when the radio is operated with a computer
> instead of the Maestro.
>
> Digital Modes
>
> The K3S has built-in, but limited support for PSK31 and RTTY modes (text
> displayed on the front panel) with no requirement for external hardware or
> software.  There is no provision for direct text input via a keyboard, so
> text is entered real-time with a CW key (code translated to text) or as
> macros in memory.  Full digital capability with keyboard input and GUI
> requires a computer and third party software.
>
> The 6600, when operated with Maestro, does not support digital modes,
> however all digital modes are fully supported when operating the 6600 with
> a computer running SmartSDR, third party software, DAX and SmartCAT.
>
> No external sound card is necessary for either radio when operated with a
> computer.
>
> The K3S does not support DSTAR while the 6600 provides support with an
> optional USB drive.  Also, Free DV support is included with the 6600
> (waveform plug-in), but not the K3S.
>
> Oscillator Stability
>
> The Flex-6600 has a .5 ppm main TCXO (preliminary published spec) while
> the K3S is rated at 5 ppm.  An optional high stability TCXO for the K3S
> will nearly match the Flex-6600 at a cost of $120.
>
> The 6600 has a standard 10 mhz input for external oscillator reference
> control, while the K3S package needs an optional board for $100.
>
> An optional internal GPSDO is available for the 6600, but not the K3S.
>
> Digital Recorder
>
> The KS3 digital voice recorder provides RX/TX recording capability
> (several recordings for TX), while the 6600 provides only a single RX
> recording, which can be played back in TX or RX mode.  The Elecraft DVR is
> more capable and there is no comparable option available for the 6600
> (third party software solutions are feasible).
>
> Both radios provide CW recording, macros and TX playback.
>
> SO2R/Duplex
>
> The Flex 6600 provides support for SO2R in one radio and full duplex
> (cross band), while the KS3 provides neither.
>
> Third Party Software Integration
>
> With introduction of N1MM spectrum integration and spotting software into
> SmartSDR 2.0, Flex has taken another big step in exploiting the tremendous
> benefits of its networked architecture and sophisticated software APIs.
> Elecraft is significantly behind in this area, offering no native network
> interface for developers. It’s seems unlikely that the P3 will provide a
> robust graphical user interface for third party apps.
>
> Hat
>
> The K3S package comes with an Elecraft hat, while customers must purchase
> the Flex hat separately for $12 plus shipping.
>
> Summary
>
> The K3S “Contester and DXer” package is $5900. Additional K3S options to
> match or partially match the Flex-6600 standard features are as follows:
>
> $ 1320 Remote operations package
>
> $ 150   FM/AM filter
>
> $ 170  Narrow CW filter for subRX
>
> $ 150  Narrow SSB filter for subRX
>
> $ 100   10 mhz external reference oscillator input board
>
> $ 180   General coverage bandpass filter
>
> $ 120   high stability TXCO (1 ppm)
>
> ---------------
>
> $2190 total
>
> These items bring the K3S package to $8090 vs. the Flex-6600/Maestro
> package at $5200. Again, this pricing was derived by matching features to
> the extent possible. Some features, such as full duplex, SO2R in one radio
> and native remote operation are currently not available from Elecraft.
>
> I recognize that many of these "high" features may not be wanted or are
> affordable for some hams. However, eliminating all of them from the
> upgraded K3S package would still result in a cost difference of $700 in
> favor of the Flex 6600/Maestro while retaining all the standard high
> features in the Flex package.
>
> If traditional knobs are not essential and you already have a decent
> Windows or IOS laptop or tablet, the Maestro can be eliminated for a total
> savings of $1900 whilst retaining a peerless panadapter/spectrum display,
> native remote capability and several other features lacking in the K3S
> package.
>
> Alternatively, the Flex-6600M alone would provide operational equivalency
> in combination with a laptop or tablet (specifically for remote ops) for
> $900 less than the K3S “Contester and DXer” package (with no add-ons).
>
> I admire Elecraft and Flex and own quality products (6500 and KPA500) from
> both American companies. With the arrival of the 6600/6400 radios and
> SmartSDR 2.0 Flex has in my opinion taken the industry lead in value,
> features, operating ergonomics and software integration. Competition is a
> good thing for amateur radio and it inspires better and lower cost products
> for us to enjoy.
>
> 73,
> Larry KB1VFU
>
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