I've found it's very difficult to have any type of rate on FT8 in a VHF contest. Even with 800 watts and a 5 element yagi @ 45 ft I got beat out all the time. Also there are some people who don't reply "RR 73 <Their Call>" after they call you so you're not sure if you're even in their log correctly. Some people claim you could maybe do one contest per minute on FT8 but the best I did was maybe one QSO every few minutes or even longer. You can do much better on SSB/CW if the band is open.

Here is my breakdown for the VHF contest

CW - 231 QSO's / 33 grids

SSB - 211 QSO's / 56 grids

FT8 - 85 QSO's /  38 grids

My strategy for the VHF contest was to only do FT8 if the band appeared dead or there was very low activity on either CW/SSB. So I worked 38 grids that I wouldn't have worked if I didn't do some FT8. FT8 is also a good propagation indicator. If you start copying a bunch of signals above 5dB on FT8  that 's a good indicator it was time to QSY back to CW/SSB.

I know there is a lot of debate about FT8 but I'm afraid it's here to stay. I know there are many that might be set in their ways on how to do things and you have to just go with the current trends to maximize your score. I'm not a huge fan of digital modes either but I do what I have to do to maximize my score. Some say FT8 isn't real radio because it's machine to machine. But that's also true for RTTY and EME work which have been around forever.  Just about all contacts on EME are made with JT65, which is very similar to FT8. Also is SOA real radio? You are making contacts with stations you didn't find by point and clicking on the band map or panadapter. There's a reason why they don't have SOA in WRTC. They want the best operators based on their contesting skills not their technical skills.

Just my opinion..

Jeff

On 6/16/2020 10:56 AM, Kevan Nason wrote:

Oops. Ed, K3DNE, said the comments below were wrongly attributed. They actually came from a fellow SECC member, Robert AJ5E. Robert also sent me an email asking if I had seen his previous comments -- which for some reason I do not have. Sorry Robert. However, the comments are exactly what I was looking for so I'm glad to have received them.

Kevan N4XL
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Kevan Nason <knason00@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:00 AM
Subject: FTx and contesting
To: secc <secc@contesting.com>


Very long…

 

I had asked what contest skills are needed for FTx contesting. Wasn't happy with the answers here (sorry Scott) so I posed the hypothetical FTx WRTC question to the Swamp Fox Contest Group. Received answers from two good ops. With their permission I pulled out some things to share with the SECC. If there are any amplifying comments or questions from the SECC I will feed them back to the SFCG group.

 

For credentials, Matt, DJ8OG, is over here from Germany at BMW in SC. He is also licensed here as NU4E. We all know there are some great German operators. Matt was #6 in Germany in the 2018 WRTC standings. (He kicks my butt, or holds his own, here in SC even though I’ve a better station than him.) Ed, K3DNE, moved down here last year. He has been associated for a long time with the PVRC and has been an op at WX3B several times. He had a very respectable 1.9 meg score in the SSB WPX a couple weeks back using a minimal antenna setup. He has been into what I’ve come to call Competitive Contesting for quite a while and knows what he’s talking about. Matt deals with aspects that apply to contesting in general that also apply to FTx. Ed’s comments are more FTx specific.


At least for me, their answers encourage me to give FTx contests a try.  


Kevan N4XL


===============================

Matt NU4E, DJ8OG

I think you have to be aware of the right band conditions, is the band open in a certain direction? Am I making enough contacts, DX, domestic, mults? If not, why? Maybe because someone is using my TX frequency and is covering me, I could hear / see him and act fast (happened to us during the weekend) to look for a clean spot (no arguing in FT8) to continue calling CQ or I could not see him but another station maybe is still transmitting on my frequency in my targeting area. If I think I have a clean QRG to call and in EU there is someone using the same and maybe covering me? You always have to adjust your strategy. You need mults on different bands to boost your score, which areas are open at which times, be there and eventually you get mults your biggest opponent is not making. My elmer once told me to leave a nice 20m SSB run to the US to go down to 40m and call to Asia in my afternoon. I thought he´s crazy but he said you´ll get those mults, they´ll call you and before everyone else is fighting for it in the evening. You can still run USA and don´t need to battle later. So band knowledge is required, no matter what. Even when you´re assisted and have all the tools, doing the right decision at the right time will boost your score. I could proof it back home with my station I beat a M/S station a few miles away from my QTH. They use monoband antennas on all bands, we had the same amplifier and I could beat them because I made other choices which boost my score. Running DX over EU, leaving a run and do important mults. Work with the 2nd VFO to not lose your run QRG but still get those inband mults. Know when it´s not worth to call a station and move on, don´t rely on those things N1MM+ is telling you, at the end you are responsible for your action and you don´t want to blame the software to be the first on 2nd place :-)

 


Ed, K3DNE

Good response from Matt, too:  General operating skills - making good strategic decisions about when to run, when to chase mults, when to change bands, etc etc, will almost always take the prize.

 

FT8 actually has a significant technical skill set.  Let me illustrate by describing two hypothetical operators:

 

A novice or non-technical operator:

·         Fires up the software, picks a band and clicks the shiny CALL CQ button.

·         Sips coffee, reads the paper

·         Some minutes later, the LOG THIS CONTACT window magically pops up.

·         If boredom sets in, instead of CQ they will look for a "green line" in the Activity window and double-click it.

·         Back to the newspaper.

·         Some minutes later, the LOG THIS CONTACT window magically pops up and he's got another QSO!  Awesome!!

·         Rinse and repeat

A novice FT8 op is thinking and making decisions every few minutes.  The novice operator will lose lots of Qs because they spent five minutes on a hopelessly weak station, or they didn't notice the handshake broke, or the other op started working a different station, or they sent "RR73" but the other station didn't hear it, or any number of things that can derail the FT8 conversation.  They weren't ready to react to anything other than " Hey look, it worked!"

  

A crazy-skilled operator:

·         Watches the waterfall and activity window for all the activity -- who is talking to whom, who is weak, who is strong, QSB, etc.

·         Looks for a clear spot to Tx, but changes it regularly.

·         Always works split.  Always.  Okay, ALMOST always.

·         Able to QSY (multiple times in a single QSO) to get around QRM.

·         Will switch from "odd" to "even" to get an overpowering signal off the waterfall.

·         Will turn the VFO to nudge a station at the edge of the audio freq limits into the wheelhouse.

·         Ready to respond immediately when FT8 goes sideways.

·         etc.

The crazy-skilled FT8 op is thinking and making decisions constantly.  The coffee is cold, and the newspaper is still in the driveway soaking wet.  By staying actively engaged in what's going on, the FT8-savvy op will be able to sustain a higher Q rate, whereas the novice op Q rate will plummet in anything short of ideal conditions.

 

(All this is just my opinion, of course.  Your mileage may vary.)


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