[TenTec] Re: [Ten-Tec516] (unknown)
Tim Randa
tranda@cox.net
Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:57:39 -0600
Glad you're still smiling Scott...instead of picking apart your response ( a
good one for sure) at the parts I would question, I believe I'll let the
thread die.
If you feel the need to continue, email direct please
de KØFL
k0fl@arrl.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ten-Tec Inc. Amateur Radio Sales" <sales@tentec.com>
To: "Tim Randa" <tranda@cox.net>; <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 4:47 PM
Subject: [TenTec] Re: [Ten-Tec516] (unknown)
> At 02:49 PM 12/4/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >Well Scott, contrary to what you might think of me I am a fan of Ten
Tec
> >products and have owned at one time or another most of what TT has
produced
> >through the years. I also have been subscribed to this reflector for
many
> >years and it's not hard to remember the problems the Pegasus and the
Jupiter
> >had when first released. It seems many TT radios through the years have
one
> >problem or another that the factory doesn't address in public even
though it
> >becomes common knowledge and discussed in length on this reflector.
>
> Tim:
>
> Think about this for a moment - when I read a message, not addressed
> to us, regarding a problem with a particular piece of our equipment - what
> is the logical course of action to take? There is a whole flow chart of
> possibilities - but I can assure you that a message regarding a problem a
> user of one of our rigs is experiencing is not necessarily going to stop
> everything that is going on here to address.
>
> Why?
>
> First, anything that is let out of here goes through lots and lots of
testing
> before we ever release it. Our assumption is for anything that leaves
> here as a new product, that it is operating and engineered properly.
>
> In the case of the Argonaut V - think back to earlier this year when we
> kept delaying the release. We were testing the rig. Working on the
> rig, wanting to make it as good as possible in every respect before
> we released it. We were (are) satisfied that that's the case with this
> radio. Now, two months after we've been shipping, when hundreds of
> units are out the door - one user indicates he has an issue with the
> rig, and another user indicated he has a different issue, both messages
> posted a public forum. Other messages, posted as well, indicate
> other users are NOT experiencing the same problem.
>
> The problem we have here is that any time a problem with a specific
> piece of gear, whether it is ours or one of the Japanese companies'
> is posted to the Internet - two things immediately happen. The first
> is that a number of people immediately assume that there is an
> ENDEMIC problem with this piece of equipment - the second is
> the question of 'why don't they (the manufacturer) do something to
> fix this problem that is common knowledge and everyone is talking
> about and has been circulating the Internet for the past [insert
> time frame between 5 minutes and several years]'? comes up.
>
> Now, when I see public messages that indicate some users are having
> a problem and others are not, my immediate reaction is 'is there a
> problem, or not?' - it most certainly is not 'we have a problem' - and
> the difference between those two reactions is miles wide. A report
> of a problem has to be investigated - and investigated carefully to
> make sure there is one, and to have it addressed properly. A problem
> an individual user may have with one unit does not mean the alarm
> should immediately be sounded that 'every' unit has the problem.
> Sure, it could lead to that assessment, but it isn't going to happen until
> some careful investigating is done - and that doesn't always occur in
> a short time frame for any number of possible reasons.
>
> As far as addressing problems publicly there are countless examples
> of us doing so. Any updating we've done to the Pegasus and Jupiter
> is a first example. The whole issue we went through years ago with the
> 2nd order intercept point receiver performance with the original Omni-VI
> - there are many examples of this. Just because we don't make a general
> announcement of something doesn't mean it's not public information -
> call us, email us, ask us - we'll provide answers if you want them.
> And if we find there is no problem - we don't put up an announcement
> that says "by the way, this problem, doesn't exist" (see below).
>
> >You seem
> > >to have plenty of time to address me on the reflector, but find it hard
to
> > >find the time to talk about the "quirks" of your products.
>
> I can't even begin to address this - we've talked about this kind of stuff
> (forgive the cliche) ad nauseum about our equipment. It comes
> back to what is an endemic problem vs. what is not. There are lots
> of examples of things people claim are endemic problems that are
> completely baseless when we check them out. Others turn out to
> be non-performance related issues that we feel have no benefit to
> fix - and we fix them anyway.
>
> What response should Ten-Tec have in a case like this:
>
> Customer: "You have a problem with X"
>
> Ten-Tec: "We investigated that and found no problem"
>
> Who wins this discussion? Let's say we find there isn't an endemic
> problem with a specific piece of gear and we say we've found no problem.
> What happens (news flash)? Ten-Tec must be wrong. "I know it's a
> problem because I know someone who had that particular problem
> with the radio." It's like the discussion that's occuring on the 516
> reflector right now about the 516 and PSK31 performance. Some
> users have reported the radio being off frequency.....
>
> Two Hz.
>
> Others have indicated - hey this is a soundcard issue, not an issue with
> the radio (which, I see, has apparently not been noted by some
> of those posting to the group). Is it the radio or is it the soundcard?
> Personally, I don't know.
>
> Let's pretend the radio is off frequency on 20 meters by 2 Hz. Instead
> of being 14.070.000, it's 14.070.002. Lessee, the factory specs for the
> 516 with the TCXO installed are +/- 3 PPM at 14 MHz. That means an
> error of +/- 42 Hz is within spec at 14 MHz. +/- 2 Hz is great.
>
> Is there a problem with the rig, then? See what I mean?
>
> > >If you say
> > >nothing do these problems go away?? If something is a software
> > >glitch..fine..say so and we'll all wait for TT or more than likely a
third
> > >party to fix the problem, but to ignore what is written by what are
> > >obviously knowledgeable hams making very detailed observations,
>
> Certainly, you're not insinuating that hams at Ten-Tec are
> a) not knowledgeable and b) not making detailed observations, right?
>
> Tim, again, we're not ignoring anything. You're not reading all of the
> traffic on the 516 reflector or you are choosing to interpret in a manner
> that does not accurately reflect what's going on there. To recap:
> Someone reported hearing a chirp on 40 meters in SPLIT mode
> operating CW on their TX signal. Others, trying the same thing, have
> reported no chirp. A couple of users reported losing their memory
> channels with a given power supply. Many others reported they did
> not. What possible response would you like from us regarding
> these issues? I posted a message to the 516 group on Monday
> indicating we were looking into it. Considering the original message
> was posted there on Friday of a holiday weekend, and that I
> had responded to this BEFORE the original poster W9VNE had
> even called us on the phone to discuss it, I'd say we're being
> pretty responsive to investigating if there is an issue.
>
> Promise: If it's an endemic problem to the rig, we'll make it known
> and come up with an answer and a fix. We don't know that it is,
> or is not. If it's not an endemic problem, then we'll just leave it be,
> and address the issue on a case-by-case basis. This is how we
> always do this with our equipment.
>
> > > and then
> > >taking offence to a comment I make with tongue in cheek is a bit much
in my
> > >book. I understand you are the big cheese at Ten Tec and I but a small
fry
> > >in the ether...but the truth is still the truth.
> >
> >Respectfully Submitted
> >Tim Randa KØFL
>
> I'm the little cheese here - I'm just responsible for making sure that
> commentary about our equipment is accurate and to point out when
> I feel we are being treated unfairly. To insinuate that a new product
> our ours has fundamental flaws and that we are unresponsive to this
> requires a response from me.
>
> My attitude - always and consistently - is that if you hate our gear or
> don't like our company that I'm not going to argue that. We live in
> a capitalist society and Ten-Tec lives and dies by it. I think (we,
> Ten-Tec) think we're doing a great job on our equipment and our
> service reputation compared to our competitiors.
>
> Geez, Tim, can't we at least get the benefit of the doubt here?
>
> Still smiling,
> Scott Robbins, W4PA
>
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "w4pa" <w4pa@yahoo.com>
> >To: <Ten-Tec516@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 2:22 PM
> >Subject: [Ten-Tec516] (unknown)
> >
> >
> >Yes, Tim, I can. To refer to the rig disparagingly in a public
> >forum after one or two reports of individual problems with a
> >unit is uncalled for, period. Particularly when reports of the
> >inability to repeat the same have been posted by other users of the
> >transceiver. You were waiting for the "real" (read: anything,
> >no matter how small, negative) reports about the Argonaut V to
> >come in - and now you've seen them. The rig is an unqualified
> >success, and we couldn't be more pleased with the results.
> >
> >I won't even address the rest of your message - you're either
> >fixated on being negative and contrary, unfamiliar with how
> >Ten-Tec conducts ourselves, or both.
> >
> >73
> >Scott Robbins, W4PA
> >
> >
> >--- In Ten-Tec516@y..., "Tim Randa" <tranda@c...> wrote:
> > > Geezzz...
> > >
> > > Can you blame me??? Maybe instead of taking a poke at me like you
> >did you
> > > could take the time and start addressing the concerns of very
> >knowledgeable
> > > operators.
> > >
> > > Sometimes the true hurts.
> > >
> > > de KØFL
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ten-Tec Inc. Amateur Radio Sales" <sales@t...>
> > > To: "Tim Randa" <tranda@c...>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 9:08 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] Re: [Ten-Tec516] Losing Memories
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks Tim.
> > >
> > > 73
> > > Scott Robbins
> > >
> > > At 06:49 PM 11/29/02 -0600, you wrote:
> > > >Glad I waited to buy what turned out to be the Argobug V till
> >after the
> > > real
> > > >reports started coming in. I knew the oooohs and ahhhh's would
> >end sooner
> > > >or later.
> > > >de KØFL
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >Ten-Tec516-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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