[TenTec] Truth in Lending!!

Tue Jan 14 11:54:07 EST 2003

You forgot the Mk5 Field for around 2700 , 500 less than the 200w Mk5. A
pretty good bargain over the 4100 dollar Orion and the rest of them if you
look at the price vs performace ratio.

No flames please :-).

-----Original Message-----
From: tentec-admin@contesting.com [mailto:tentec-admin@contesting.com]On
Behalf Of Duane Grotophorst
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 1:30 AM
To: George, W5YR; tentec@contesting.com; Carl Moreschi
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Truth in Lending!!

Ok long as we are into a truth of total real cost
mode of thinking regarding radio pricing lets analyze
a few of the other higher end imported radios in the
same way (tried to keep the available options and/or
features generally comparable). Then look at their
significant limitations (admittedly some are
subjective) for their total $:

Prices are from AES website 13 Jan 03, rounded to
nearest whole dollar:

Yaesu FT100MP MKV - $2225, SP8 Speaker- $160, YF114CN
Filter $145, YF114SN filter- $145, YF115C filter-
$160, FH1 remote keypad - $89, MD100A8X Desk
Microphone- $130, DVS2 Voice recorder - $220.

Total = $3274

And how do you suppose the folks who paid ~$3100 in
2001 for the base radio feel today after seeing the
new purchase price of their radio drop by nearly $900
(almost 1/3) in 2 years time? Ouch thats gotta hurt,
you could buy a new Pegasus for that amount. And lets
see what limitations you will have bought: You can
only use the sub RX in the same band as the main RX,
no IF DSP, no spectrum scope, no meaningful software
control, no firmware upgrade capability. You do get
200W though which is important to some folks. For the
10 year old design FT-1000D base radio start at $4200,
options mostly the same otherwise.

Icom IC-756ProII - $2770, CT17 RS232 level converter -
$140, PS125 Power supply - $300, SM6 Desk Mic - $120,
SP20 Speaker - $250.

Total = $3850

There is a free give away going on now for the PS125
but again you must pity those who jumped on the
bandwagon early, they forked over the full $300 for
that supply. And then there are the folks who bought
the original Pros that are giving them away for half
of what they paid for them, often in as little as 1
year after they bought them, - ouch. No doubt super
bargains for those buying them on the used market
though. And for limitations lets see: Only one
relatively wide roofing filter, not 3 standard plus 3
optional (which are not likely to be needed by most
people anyhow). Only 51 filters, not a nearly
continuously variable filter widths in 10Hz increments
(I do find specifying 590 filters a bit silly
though). Can only use the sub RX in the same band with
the main RX. An internal heatsink, - why put the
single largest and most variable heat generating
sources heatsink inside the radio? That in turn
drives a design requirement to *always* have a noisy
fan for all operational phases RX and TX. A die-cast
chassis/heatsink like most of the imports now use does
generate a lot of perceived quality by virtue of
adding heft to the radio though. An expensive and
limited RS232 option, the fact that you have to buy a
RS232 level adapter as an option in 2003 is utterly
ridiculous. Plus there is no downloadable firmware
upgrade capability for such a software heavy radio, -
also archaic in 2003. Although of the 3 imports I find
Icom to be the most progressive in their thinking and
also the most similar to TT in general design
philosophy.

Kenwood TS870S - $2300, KPS15 Power supply - $150
($270 for the heavy duty PS52), MC60A Desk Mic - $150,
SO2 TXCO - $180, SP31 Speaker - $100, DRU3A Voice
recorder - $130.

Total = $3010

Again no spectrum sweep, no downloadable firmware
updates, radio heating internal heatsink, no sub RX,
only one wide roofing filter.

Therefore if it is so important to repeatedly
illuminate the real cost of the Orion, - then every
radio model referenced in all postings to the various
discussion boards should also receive the same
treatment, or is that not valid? And dont you have to
ask yourself why these imported radios have dropped so
much in price recently? Is it only the Dollar to Yen
ratio driving it, or is it because of slow sales, or
some combination of those factors? And what do you
suppose those prices would be like if the Dollar to
Yen ratio was a more realistic 1/100 vs. the ~1/130
that it is today? Remember the prices of imported
radios during the mid-90s when it was as low as 1/85?

In the end I think most hams are smart enough to
evaluate what they need to buy in order to have/equip
a radio to do what they want, there really is no need
for selective price tallying of one brand/model or
another.

Duane
N9DG

--- "George, W5YR" <w5yr@att.net> wrote:
> I mention the total ORION package price as what it
> will cost a new Ten
> Tec customer to acquire the ORION "system."  Surely
> you don't expect
> the ORION market to consist only of previous Ten Tec
> customers who may
> already have various pieces of Ten Tec gear that
> will "work" with the
> ORION. If that were the case, Ten Tec will have
> greatly limited its
> penetration into the top-of-the-line market where
> the ORION is
> expressly aimed.
>
> Anyone could probably cob together some sort of
> station around the
> basic ORION at $3300, and those who can will
> probably do so. But,
> looking beyond the present customer base, "new"
> ORION owners will
> want/need the entire system, including all those
> filters that are
> deemed essential for the ORION to meet its
> superlative performance
> goals. And it is that group that I have in mind when
> I observe that
> the ORION is not a $3300 radio for the general
> amateur public. If the
> entire package has been designed to meet performance
> goals, then the
> new Ten Tec customer will either be required or will
> desire to
> purchase the package, not just the basic radio.
>
> If I am at fault in this, it is perhaps in
> attempting to "keep the
> record straight" when posting after posting tells us
> that the ORION is
> a $3300 radio. The basic radio *is*, but if you want
> an ORION system
> (power supply, speaker, mic, tuner, full set of
> filters, etc) then it
> is a $4431.95 radio and should be viewed that way
> when being compared
> with other TOL radios, not the residue of older Ten
> Tec radios and
> parts that many current customers may already have.
>
> Presently, and until the Icom "785' makes its
> appearance at a rumored
> $6K+ price, the ORION system will be the most
> expensive TOL radio on
> the market. Seems to me to be a little unfair to
> advertise and
> represent the radio at its most basic price when
> that is only a start
> to acquiring the full system.
>
> Unless Ten Tec can penetrate the TOL market
> including Icom, Yaesu,
> Kenwood and others to come, I cannot see how they
> can make the ORION a
> paying venture if they plan to sell only  the basic
> radio to current
> Ten Tec customers who have all the rest of the
> system, or enough to
> get by with.
>
> For the record, I have no desire to see the ORION
> fail as a project or
> to see Ten Tec get into further fiscal depths, but I
> find it hard to
> remain silent when everyone acts as if once they buy
> the $3300 basic
> radio, they will have "an ORION." To an extent they
> will, but Ten Tec
> has designed an entire ORION system, and unless all
> elements of that
> system are present and working together as designed,
> it is difficult
> to imagine the ORION delivering the peak performance
> it seeks.
>
> A more basic question: if Ten Tec doesn't expect
> people to buy all the
> ORION system elements on the price sheet, why are
> they listed and
> being manufactured?
>
> Sorry if any feathers have been ruffled, but there
> is more than one
> way to look at things, especially when enthusiasm is
> reduced and a
> more objective look is taken.
>
> 73/72, George
> Amateur Radio W5YR -  the Yellow Rose of Texas
> In the 57th year and it just keeps getting better!
> Fairview, TX 30 mi NE of Dallas in Collin county
> EM13qe
> K2 #489  IC-765 #2349 IC-756 PRO  #2121 IC-756 PRO2
> #3235
>

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