[TenTec] Orion QSK

Fri Aug 6 11:02:16 EDT 2004

Lee

OK...well maybe we both missed each others point. My response to you was
about your remark to the affect that if someone is asking for a rig to work
full QSK at 100 wpm, are they just 'bragging'. And my positive answer to
that comment that you made is a definate NO.

From: "Lee Crocker" <w9oy at yahoo.com>

> Tommy
>
> I think you miss the point.  My start with QSK radios
> dates back to the Atlas 350xl, then to a Ten Tec Delta
> then an FT-1000D, a Pegasus and now an Orion, and a
> few home brew single banders in the mix.  I have built
> 6 amps, 2 using relay based QSK and 4 with pin diode
> QSK, and worked out the timing circuits specifically
> for each transceiver-amp combination, and made other
> timing circuits to allow proper sequencing using the
> NIR-10 NIR-12 and 599 timewave DSP.  This often
> amounts to going inside the radio and analyzing what
> is the correct signal to use to key on, and it often
> is not the same signal as the manufacturer provides at
> the open collector at jack on the back of the radio.

My first full QSK rig was a Viking 2 and Thunderbolt amp, with a Heathkit
SB-303 reciever. And on through the Corsair 3, Icom IC-781, FT-1000MP
(ugh!), Omni 6, Omni 6 Plus, and the Orion. I also tried my hand at
designing some QSK circuitry, but quickly found you would be hard pressed to
beat or even match the Corsair 2 type full QSK.
>
>
> This was as much out of an interest in playing with
> this circuitry as it was actually using the rig to
> operate.  In other words I was enjoying building the
> rig and understanding the limitations of the rig, as
> much as driving the rig.  I do not operate at 100wpm,
> but I do listen (and have for years) to you all around
> 7033.  I can copy around 45 to 50 and can send
> accurately around 35.  I have friends who can do 100
> wpm and been in their shacks while operating those
> speeds so I don't have the slightest doubt 100 wpm is
> a totally do-able speed.  My old boss, a commercial CW
> op says he can do 120 in bursts and I don't doubt his
> word for a second.
>
> The issue is given the advent of software defined
> radio, how important to the overall operation of the
> system resources should be devoted to 100 0r 150 wpm
> QSK?  I think this is a legitimate question.  Given
> always limited computing resources, where does QSK
> fall in the economy of the system design?

With the advent of SDR radios, full QSK at speeds much over 40 or 50 wpm is
moot. It's just not going to happen!! Example: Omni 6 max CW speed = 68wpm;
Omni 6 Plus max CW speed = <60 wpm, Orion max CW speed = <60 wpm, Icom
IC-7800 max CW speed = <70 wpm. When you start delaying the transmitter
keying circuit, to wait for the CPU to complete it's duties, high speed CW
takes the back seat. And there's nothing really wrong  with that because
your hopefully getting a much better receiver as a trade-off. When I got my
Omni 6 in 1992, I quickly found its high speed limitations, but I called
Paul at TenTec and it was explained to me WHY the Omni 6 would not key any
faster. But with the very excellent receiver of the Omni 6, my decision to
accept the good rcvr or high speed CW, quickly went with the good rcvr.

The 20 or so high speed CW operators on the east coast fully understand that
what we do is in the extreme majority. And that it would be extremely
selfish to bitc* and moan to manufacturers about their radios having a great
receiver, at the expense of 100+ wpm full QSK, or even 60 wpm, for that
matter. We KNOW it's not going to happen, but we still look for it anyway.

So if you are a high speed operator, with the performance of the Orion and
the IC-7800 (forget Yaesu), you better save your Corsair 2's. I do not limit
myself in my hobby to just high speed CW. I am a low band DX chaser (330
countries on 40m CW) and enjoy the heck out of being a 'little pistol' CW
contester, and I enjoy the heck out of rag chewing at 30wpm. Finding one
radio that works excellent for all those  scenerio's, in my opinion, just
ain't gonna happen. The best 'compromise' you can get is the Omni 6 and the
Icom IC-781, in my opinion.
>
> When I was in broadcasting, we had transmitters that
> used tubes.  We later went to solid state
> transmitters.  Why?  Over the years they are cheaper
> and more reliable to operate.  There were trade offs
> however in performance between the tube and the
> transistor transmitters.  So this is a similar issue
> we face in going to SDR's.  There will be performance
> trade-offs between digital and analogue circuit
> behavior, and often this comes up as "timing" issues.
> So what is reasonable as far as "QSK" behavior in the
> land of SDR? This is the question I propose.  You are
> on record I presume as judging this as an absolute
> necessity.

NO, I did not 'judge'. There was a 'wish list' on the reflector...and that
was purely MY wish...that's all it was.

What is 'reasonable as far as "QSK" behavior in  the land of SDR?'....well
Lee, based on my observations of the RF output waveform of the Orion, a true
SDR, what we better ask is 'What is reasonable to expect for CW capability
from  the land of SDR'. The firmware for the Orion has a long way to go
before it can even be classed as a CW radio at any speed over 40 wpm...and
if you doubt that, run your own test and monitor the Orion's RF output wave
form.

73,

Tom - W4BQF

  And maybe there are 15 other excellent
> hams on the east coast that share your analysis.  That
> is one end of the spectrum, Your vote is noted.  Now
> how about other of us non-excellent operators who are
> not 7033 QRQ aficionados, but may be DX chasers or
> weak signal fanatics, or God forbid contesters what
> are your perceptions?  I believe this to be an
> interesting and quite discussable question that does
> not necessarily require a dogmatic response but is
> amenable to a reasoned analysis.  As I preciously
> stated I used to think QSK was an absolute, but after
> some further analysis I'm not so sure that diminishing
> returns are reached long before 100wpm.  Each timing
> cycle devoted to achieving 100wpm is a cycle that
> isn't devoted to some other function.
>
>   73   W9OY
>
>
>
>
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