[TenTec] dit chopper IC-7800

Wed Aug 11 06:12:16 EDT 2004

Hi Bob and thanks for the suggestion.

That certainly has been under analysis for some time. I first tested my
Titan 3 with an Omni 6 Plus, then a modified Corsair 2. For the past two
weeks, I have had my Titan 3 running with my Omni 6. In none of these cases
did I have any problem running full QSK, better yet, I had no problems at
all with  the Titan 3. The next test was running my Titan 425 with each of
the Orion's, and again, both Orion's exhibited the same problem as I have
with the Titan 3.

This, of course, is not a thorough technical test of the Titan 3, however I
take it to be a pretty good indication that the problem does not lie with
the Titan 3 nor the Titan 425. To  me, what makes it more conclusive that
the problem lies with the Orion, is that if I revert to firmware v1.369,
those problems do not exist.

Do you perhaps, have any suggestions of any additional test I could perform?
(But don't forget that Titan 3 is one HEAVY bugger to move around my desk by
myself!! hihi...)

Tom - W4BQF

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Henderson" <bob at cytanet.com.cy>
To: <tentec at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] dit chopper IC-7800

> Tom
>
> If you're seeing the problem with the Titan 3 at 28 wpm and other folks
> using Orion loop keying with Acom and Alpha amplifiers are reporting
perfect
> performance that would strongly suggest you should be looking more closely
> at your Titan 3.  Particularly so as you now apparently have two Orions
> exhibiting the same problem.
>
> Bob, 5B4AGN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tommy" <aldermant at alltel.net>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] dit chopper IC-7800
>
>
> > Well, I'm leading you astray again. Forgot to mention that this is going
> on
> > at 'normal' speeds of 30 to 40 wpm!! Or in contest where I normally run
28
> > to 32 wpm. Not too many 'dps' at that speed!
> >
> > Tom - W4BQF
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq at iglou.com>
> > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:11 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TenTec] dit chopper IC-7800
> >
> >
> > > Tom:
> > > Too many dits per second causes buffer overrun in the newer firmware.
> Hows
> > > that for a guess?
> > > Steve N4LQ
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tommy" <aldermant at alltel.net>
> > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:34 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] dit chopper IC-7800
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hmmmm....my statements may be somewhat misleading or incomplete! The
> > Orion
> > > > will handle full QSK with the Titan 3. However with the Titan 3 in
the
> > > > Keying Loop of the Orion, and running v1.371, the Orion will
randomly
> > > either
> > > > lose RF output power or will randomly lose the rcvr (signals drop
out
> > > almost
> > > > completely) and the audio from  the Orion. Dropping back to v1.369
and
> > > this
> > > > function works OK. I've made sure this is fully documented with
> > > > rfsquared.com . I presently have two Orions and they both perform
the
> > same
> > > > way.
> > > >
> > > > It is not that the Orion will not handle full QSK, it is the above
> > > mentioned
> > > > random glitches that happen ONLY when the Titan 3 is in either
Keying
> > Loop
> > > > #1 or #2.
> > > >
> > > > The Titan 3 operates excellent full QSK with both an Omin 6 and an
> Omni
> > 6
> > > > Plus and a modified Corsair 2. I have been running the Titan 3 with
my
> > old
> > > > Omni 6 for the past two weeks and they both work flawless.
> > > >
> > > > Tom - W4BQF
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Bob Henderson" <bob at cytanet.com.cy>
> > > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 6:22 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] dit chopper IC-7800
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > This is interesting.  As I said the Omni VI+ doesn't work well in
> QSK
> > > with
> > > > > the 87A or the Acom whether loop connected or not and that's due
to
> > the
> > > > way
> > > > > TX Out on the VI+ is timed.  If the Orion really works properly in
> > loop
> > > > mode
> > > > > with the Acom 1000 and the Alpha 89 then that suggests that the
> Orion
> > > > timing
> > > > > for TX Out is different to the VI+.
> > > > >
> > > > > Could this be the reason Ten Tec amplifier owners using Orions are
> > > > > complaining about the QSK not working well?  It sorta seems to me
if
> > the
> > > > > Orion is correctly timed for QSK loop connect with the Acom and
the
> > > Alpha
> > > > > then it can't be for the Ten Tec amps which use the sequenced
> relays.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I say....that's the way it seems to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob, 5B4AGN
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Duane A Calvin" <ac5aa at juno.com>
> > > > > To: <n4py at earthlink.net>; <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:36 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] dit chopper IC-7800
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > And this is how I have my Alpha 99 connected.  Also works great
on
> > > > 1.371.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >         73,  Duane
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:28:12 -0000 "Carl Moreschi"
> > > <n4py at earthlink.net>
> > > > > > writes:
> > > > > > > I run the Acom 1000 with my Orion.  I use the TXOut line of
the
> > > Orion
> > > > > > > to the
> > > > > > > Acom key in line.  I then connect the Acom key out to my Orion
> > TXEN.
> > > > > > >  This
> > > > > > > results in perfectly timed full QSK with the Orion and Acom
> 1000.
> > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > works well with Orion firmware 1.371.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Carl Moreschi N4PY
> > > > > > > Franklinton, North Carolina
> > > > > > > n4py at earthlink.net
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Bob Henderson" <bob at cytanet.com.cy>
> > > > > > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:37 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] dit chopper IC-7800
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Duane
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have been running full QSK for almost 30 years.  I have
> never
> > > > > > > used a
> > > > > > > > keying loop with my amps and I don't have hot switching
> > problems.
> > > > > > > > Currently, I have two Orions, one drives an Alpha 87A and
the
> > > > > > > other an
> > > > > > > Acom
> > > > > > > > 1000.  The 87A is pin diode switched but the Acom uses a
> vacuum
> > > > > > > relay.
> > > > > > > Both
> > > > > > > > amps are controlled with direct connections from the Amp Key
1
> > > > > > > outputs of
> > > > > > > > the Orions.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > With apologies for mentioning the unmentionable..........I
> have
> > > > > > > previously
> > > > > > > > used these amps successfully in QSK with TS930, TS870,
TS950,
> > > > > > > TS570,
> > > > > > > > FT100MP, FT1000MP Mk V Field, & Elecraft K2.  The only radio
I
> > > > > > > have which
> > > > > > > > will not work well without modification is my Omni VI+.  The
> VI+
> > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > QSK
> > > > > > > > properly with these amps whether I use a loop circuit or
not.
> > The
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > way
> > > > > > > > I have been able to get either of these amps to work
properly
> in
> > > > > > > QSK with
> > > > > > > > the VI+ is by retiming the TX Out signal from the VI+.  TX
Out
> > > > > > > from the
> > > > > > > Omni
> > > > > > > > VI+ is enabled in a timely fashion on key down so there is
no
> > > > > > > leading edge
> > > > > > > > problem but it is disabled about 15-20mS too soon and so
> causes
> > > > > > > tail end
> > > > > > > > clipping big style.  The loop circuit on the VI+ appears
timed
> > > > > > > specifically
> > > > > > > > for Ten Tec amps.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bob, 5B4AGN
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Duane A Calvin" <ac5aa at juno.com>
> > > > > > > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 7:44 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] dit chopper IC-7800
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Tommy,
> > > > > > > > >         I don't understand your comment - how can it run
> full
> > > > > > > QSK
> > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > > a keying loop for the amp?  Either something is hot
> switching,
> > > > > > > has the
> > > > > > > > > potential to, or it's not really running full QSK.  Maybe
I
> > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > understand the comment.  (Or, maybe the rig is QSK but the
> amp
> > > > > > > isn't -
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > stays in transmit?)  My Orion runs full QSK fine with my
> Alpha
> > > > > > > 99, but I
> > > > > > > > > don't know at what speed it breaks down.  Certainly does
> well
> > at
> > > > > > > 40 WPM,
> > > > > > > > > which is about as fast as I go.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >         73,  Duane
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:45:09 -0400 "Tommy"
> > > > > > > <aldermant at alltel.net>
> > > > > > > writes:
> > > > > > > > > > That's OK Rick, I understand.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I think Ten Tec has taken your exact
track
> on
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > amplifier/QSK issue. The Orion, with the latest versions
> of
> > > > > > > > > > firmware, v1.371
> > > > > > > > > > and v1.370, will not work with the Ten Tec Titan 3.
Maybe
> > > > > > > someday?
> > > > > > > > > > But as
> > > > > > > > > > you say, high speed CW ops are an extremely small
minority
> > of
> > > > > > > active
> > > > > > > > > > hams
> > > > > > > > > > and marketing types don't think there are enough sales
> (and
> > > > > > > > > > rightfully so)
> > > > > > > > > > to worry about that issue or operating the rig in the CW
> > mode
> > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > > over
> > > > > > > > > > about 50 wpm. However, since you do not need a keying
loop
> > to
> > > > > > > run
> > > > > > > > > > full QSK
> > > > > > > > > > with Icom gear, that IC-7800 running at 80 wpm last
night
> > sure
> > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > > > excellent.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Tom - W4BQF
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Duane Calvin, AC5AA
> > > > > > > > > Austin, Texas
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > TenTec mailing list
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Duane Calvin, AC5AA
> > > > > > Austin, Texas
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > TenTec mailing list
> > > > > > TenTec at contesting.com
> > > > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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