[TenTec] Re: TenTec Digest, Vol 14, Issue 27 Brand X preamps.
Allan Henry Kaplan
w1ael at mindspring.com
Wed Feb 11 13:47:44 EST 2004
Quoting Kd4GT:
"....from the spec sheet: "Two types of receive preamplifiers:
>> Preamp 1; Boost low level signal improving intermodulation
>>characteristics
>> Preamp 2; Boost low level signal improving receiver gain"
Both preamp descriptions read like marketing Bull.... to me.
Preamp 1 is simply not plausible. Preamp 2 description is so vague as
to be meaningless! Neither statement is worth including as part of a
receiver specification, in my opinion. My quick read at the Brand X
website did not find a spec sheet. Is there one?
"the roofing filters of the
> IC-7800 are at 64 MHz.
> It won't be easy for Icom to get them as effective as Ten-Tec's 9
> MHz filters!"
The 6 kHz bandwidth absolutely rules out their being as effective as
Ten-Tec's 9 MHz filters! Further, there is no technology within the
price range of non-professional receiver to reduce that bandwidth by
much. I have not seen any reference to the tone spacing for "+40 dBm
Intercept Point". Without the spacing specification, the touted
intercept point is merely more Brand X BS.
That said I sincerely apologize for discussing vaporware on this
reflector, and will cease right now. Please use only my direct e-mail
address, if you must flame me.
73 all, W1AEL, Allan.
tentec-request at contesting.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Doug Smith to Collins Rockwell (Jim Reid)
> 2. Re: Delta II and Scout (Edward Crawford)
> 3. Re: RE: More Orion redefines the meaning of ... AGC OFF
> 4. AGC Hang in ORION. (Allan Henry Kaplan)
> 5. RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this stuff up?
> (Allan Henry Kaplan)
> 6. IC-7800 (Rick Westerman)
> 7. RE: RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this stuff
> up? (Rick Westerman)
> 8. Re: RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this stuff
> up? (Tommy)
> 9. Orion vs Brand X (Cliff)
> 10. Re: RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this stuffup?
> (Jim Munson)
> 11. Re: RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this
> stuff up? (Steve Weber)
> 12. Omni6+ mods: 125hz cw filter and 2 khz roofing filter
> (Scott Johns)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:08:46 -1000
> From: "Jim Reid" <jimr.reid at verizon.net>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Doug Smith to Collins Rockwell
> Message-ID: <002401c3f044$028949e0$c93b4104 at NewOne>
> References: <COEHICILCFODCAILDEBKCEBDDMAA.farson at shaw.ca>
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> Reply-To: tentec at contesting.com
> Message: 1
>
>
>
>>Hmmmm....A KWM3??
>
>
> I doubt if such would ever come from the Gov.
> Systems Div of Rockwell-Collins, and the
> Electronic Warfare/Signals Intelligence group
> at that, hi.
>
> I actually believe that Doug was also a "contract"
> employee at Ten Tec; that is, under contract to
> do exactly what he did: that is all the Orion front
> end and DSP architecture/algorithm design work.
> And all of that part of the Orion is operating very
> fine business!
>
> So far as I can tell from what Doug has posted at
> his own web site about the Orion, he had no
> responsibility for/about the Dragon Ball processor,
> nor its programming to operate all the internal and
> front panel control/display interface in which all
> the firmware updates have been for the last several
> months. Some of these were, of course, real
> problem fixes; many have been changes requested
> by us users.
>
> So, for Doug's talents and abilities, there was no
> longer need at Ten Tec until the next major new front
> end/DSP project might begin and Ten Tec management
> had no idea when that might be....maybe not for several
> more years! So the reason for Doug's contract with
> Ten Tec was actually over for a time.
>
> Now Doug has found a great spot in the Rockwell-Collins
> Government/MIL-spec Division, in which there is always
> opportunity to propose to and bid upon all sorts of
> Government contracts and lots of exotic stuff to offer
> to the "spooky" side of affairs of State, hi. Win such a
> contract every year or so, and Doug will be kept happy
> and busy with his talents/skills for as long as he chooses
> to stay in that sort of activity.
>
> Of course, he still is also employed (again, under contract?)
> by ARRL as editor of QEX and to perform other technical
> consultations to them, I believe.
>
> 73, Jim KH7M
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:09:48 -0500
> From: "Edward Crawford" <w4wvw at msn.com>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Delta II and Scout
> Message-ID: <BAY4-DAV80JxRVVfdY6000012b4 at hotmail.com>
> References: <82.4ee40d0.2d5ac93f at aol.com>
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> Message: 2
>
> The Delta II is a 100 watt, dual vfo, general coverage, speech =
> processor, memories, full featured rig with a clock even.
> I don't know about the circuitry, but I imagine the Jones filter is the =
> only thing they have in common.=20
> 73. Ed/w4wvw
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: ARDUJENSKI at aol.com<mailto:ARDUJENSKI at aol.com>=20
> To: tentec at contesting.com<mailto:tentec at contesting.com>=20
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 6:54 PM
> Subject: [TenTec] Delta II and Scout
>
>
> I was curious if the only real difference between the two subject =
> radios is=20
> the power level (100 vs 50 watts max) and the plug in modules and with =
> the=20
> Jones filter it appears they may perform similarly. I found specs for =
> the Delta I=20
> and II a bit difficult to come by on the internet. Thank you
>
> Alan KB7MBI in Woodinville, WA
> FISTS 5702 / ARS / Proud member of ARRL
> ___ ___ . . . . . . ___ ___ DIT DIT
> _______________________________________________
> TenTec mailing list
> TenTec at contesting.com<mailto:TenTec at contesting.com>
> =
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec<http://lists.contesti=
> ng.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:36:02 +0000
> From: ac5e at comcast.net
> To: tentec at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] RE: More Orion redefines the meaning of ... AGC OFF
> Message-ID: <021120040236.27963.5b0c at comcast.net>
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: tentec at contesting.com
> Message: 3
>
> Well, since Al has resurrected that topic, I have asked a couple of JA's and gotten the same response I would have to give. Not heard on air. So at least for now it's still vaporware.
>
> This for a rig that was supposed to be out in November or December. From a company famous for delivering all these highly complex projects on time; and whose equipment works first time every time and keeps on working forever. Which ain't what I hear on the grapevine.
>
> As far as price is concerned I hear the JA rumor mill has the IC-7800 pegged at 1.1 million Yen. Divide by today's exchange rate of 105.5 Yen to the buck, add a bit for transport and warranty and US dealers profit - and your guess is probably as good as mine. But if price follows true to form it will likely be above $11,000 at your friendly ham store.
>
> And finally, as far as performance is concerned - the published specs give me cause for concern. Nuff said.
>
> 73 Pete Allen AC5E
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:03:05 -0500
> From: Allan Henry Kaplan <w1ael at mindspring.com>
> To: tentec at contesting.com
> Subject: [TenTec] AGC Hang in ORION.
> Message-ID: <4029B789.7070903 at mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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> Message: 4
>
> Barry, N1EU, wrote: "I assume the hang is a delay before
> the onset of AGC decay".
>
> Absolutely correct! I was present at the creation, but have since
> retired from Ten-Tec. Do not however ask me for any advice on
> programmable AGC, because I did not get a chance to work with it. What
> is this SSB stuff that you guys talk about - HI! Allan, W1AEL.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:16:12 -0500
> From: Allan Henry Kaplan <w1ael at mindspring.com>
> To: tentec at contesting.com
> Subject: [TenTec] RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this stuff up?
> Message-ID: <4029C8AC.9030302 at mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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> Reply-To: tentec at contesting.com
> Message: 5
>
> Rick wrote, "Doug wasn't doing the software and that's where the work is
> now".
>
> **** Do some of you guys make this stuff up? ****
>
> In the period before I retired from Ten-Tec engineering last July, Doug
> Smith made substantial contributions to both hardware and software in
> ORION. Doug also introduced several new products and many new ideas
> during his tenure. The ORION development was truly a team effort, with
> the entire engineering department working on its design and development,
> and with support from other parts of the company where applicable. With
> Gary on the job, Ten-Tec does not lack software development talent for
> continuing inovation. ORION was a heroic effort for the company. OK,
> the sustaining engineering development is almost all software now - you
> get partial credit.
>
> Allan H. Kaplan, W1AEL
> A proud member of the TT Worshipers Cult.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:21:02 +0100
> From: "Rick Westerman" <Rick at dj0ip.de>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Subject: [TenTec] IC-7800
> Message-ID: <000f01c3f067$39bea900$0331a8c0 at Gateway>
> In-Reply-To: <03449D1344E4414EB9AAB797FEEADE816E5B2C at wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com>
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C3F06F.9B831100"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Reply-To: Rick at dj0ip.de, tentec at contesting.com
> Message: 6
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C3F06F.9B831100
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> One thing Al forgot to mention is that the roofing filters of the
> IC-7800 are at 64 MHz.
> It won't be easy for Icom to get them as effective as Ten-Tec's 9
> MHz filters!
>
> 73
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tentec-bounces at contesting.com
> [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com]On Behalf Of
> al_lorona at agilent.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:39 AM
> To: tentec at contesting.com
> Subject: [TenTec] RE: More Orion redefines the meaning of ... AGC
> OFF
>
>
>
>
>>... but one can put up with some deficiencies in
>>$800 radio vs. "ultimate" $3.6k radio.
>>Can we discuss topics rationally or is this really TT
>>Worshipers Cult forum?
>>
>>Yuri
>
>
> Yuri,
>
> Careful! When $9000.00 Brand X radio comes out, folks might hold
> you to
> the same standard you have so nicely stated in your message
> above. In
> other words, replace "$800" with "$3.6k" and replace "$3.6k" with
> "$9000.00".
>
> I hope saying this does not put me in "TT Worshipers Cult".
>
> Seriously, Orion is no longer "ultimate". That title now claimed
> by
> Brand X radio. See
> http://www.icom.co.jp/world/products/amateur/7800/index.htm .
>
> By the way, there are a couple of things that we can scrutinize
> about
> this radio, when it becomes available. One is that the narrowest
> roofing
> filter is 6 kHz. Other is that there is built-in switching power
> supply,
> which has potential to mean trouble. Lots of press is being
> devoted to
> the 'clean' transmitter, so we will be looking very closely at
> that (for
> the money, how much 'cleaner' than the Yaesu Class A
> transmitter?), as
> well as to the logistical problems of running a radio with 28V
> finals on
> 12V that requires 800 VA on transmit.
>
> Also, one thing already bothers me. It is the way that Icom is
> touting
> the 4 DSP chips inside, as if they're all used for the same
> purpose.
> Actually, there is only one DSP for the main RX, one for the sub
> RX, one
> for the spectrum display, and one for the transmit DSP.
>
> Also, the ominous message "some frequency bands not guaranteed".
> Have no
> idea what that means.
>
> Also, this from the spec sheet: "Two types of receive
> preamplifiers:
> Preamp 1; Boost low level signal improving intermodulation
> characteristics
> Preamp 2; Boost low level signal improving receiver gain"
>
> Wow, a preamp that improves the intermod characteristics?! Didn't
> someone just pooh-pooh that a couple of days ago?!
>
>
>
> Al W6LX
>
> _______________________________________________
> TenTec mailing list
> TenTec at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C3F06F.9B831100--
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:30:06 +0100
> From: "Rick Westerman" <Rick at dj0ip.de>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Subject: RE: [TenTec] RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this stuff
> up?
> Message-ID: <001701c3f068$7dbfe960$0331a8c0 at Gateway>
> In-Reply-To: <4029C8AC.9030302 at mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: Rick at dj0ip.de, tentec at contesting.com
> Message: 7
>
> Sorry Al for misleading, but I thought Doug's main contribution
> was the "design of the integration of the software to the
> hardware" and not the actual dits-n-bits of the software (ie.,
> DSP programming, which I thought was Gary and his team). With
> the radio on the street now, the hardware/software integration is
> done and [DSP] software programming lives on.
>
> BTW, SSB means "Some Silly Business".
>
> 73
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tentec-bounces at contesting.com
> [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com]On Behalf Of Allan Henry
> Kaplan
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 7:16 AM
> To: tentec at contesting.com
> Subject: [TenTec] RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this
> stuff
> up?
>
>
> Rick wrote, "Doug wasn't doing the software and that's where the
> work is
> now".
>
> **** Do some of you guys make this stuff up? ****
>
> In the period before I retired from Ten-Tec engineering last
> July, Doug
> Smith made substantial contributions to both hardware and
> software in
> ORION. Doug also introduced several new products and many new
> ideas
> during his tenure. The ORION development was truly a team
> effort, with
> the entire engineering department working on its design and
> development,
> and with support from other parts of the company where
> applicable. With
> Gary on the job, Ten-Tec does not lack software development
> talent for
> continuing inovation. ORION was a heroic effort for the company.
> OK,
> the sustaining engineering development is almost all software
> now - you
> get partial credit.
>
> Allan H. Kaplan, W1AEL
> A proud member of the TT Worshipers Cult.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TenTec mailing list
> TenTec at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:07:29 -0500
> From: "Tommy" <aldermant at alltel.net>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this stuff
> up?
> Message-ID: <003001c3f097$a102f780$038366a6 at w4bqf2>
> References: <4029C8AC.9030302 at mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: tentec at contesting.com
> Message: 8
>
> Thanks Allan. It sure is nice to hear from someone who literally knows what
> they are talking about. (And no offense to my friend Rick) It just seemed
> like suddenly a heck of a lot of 'expert contesters' and other expert
> Monday-morning-quarterbacks began to tell us what an awful design job was
> done on Orion and it's all just getting a little bit old. Informed technical
> discussions are great, but personal opinion about technical issues just
> don't get it.
>
> Speaking of which, I would like to suggest that Ten Tec modify that cap they
> sell with the Ten Tec logo on it. I think they would sell more of those caps
> if the inscription said "MEMBER, Ten Tec Worshipers Cult".
>
> Tom/W4BQF
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allan Henry Kaplan" <w1ael at mindspring.com>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 1:16 AM
> Subject: [TenTec] RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this stuff up?
>
>
>
>>Rick wrote, "Doug wasn't doing the software and that's where the work is
>>now".
>>
>> **** Do some of you guys make this stuff up? ****
>>
>>In the period before I retired from Ten-Tec engineering last July, Doug
>>Smith made substantial contributions to both hardware and software in
>>ORION. Doug also introduced several new products and many new ideas
>>during his tenure. The ORION development was truly a team effort, with
>>the entire engineering department working on its design and development,
>>and with support from other parts of the company where applicable. With
>>Gary on the job, Ten-Tec does not lack software development talent for
>>continuing inovation. ORION was a heroic effort for the company. OK,
>>the sustaining engineering development is almost all software now - you
>>get partial credit.
>>
>>Allan H. Kaplan, W1AEL
>>A proud member of the TT Worshipers Cult.
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>TenTec mailing list
>>TenTec at contesting.com
>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:56:13 -0500
> From: Cliff <csegar at mindspring.com>
> To: tentec at contesting.com
> Subject: [TenTec] Orion vs Brand X
> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20040211075613.01c30738 at mail.mindspring.com>
> In-Reply-To: <03449D1344E4414EB9AAB797FEEADE816E5B2C at wcosmb01.cos.agilen
> t.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: tentec at contesting.com
> Message: 9
>
> At 06:38 PM 2/10/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>Also, this from the spec sheet: "Two types of receive preamplifiers:
>> Preamp 1; Boost low level signal improving intermodulation
>>characteristics
>> Preamp 2; Boost low level signal improving receiver gain"
>
>
> Really interesting concept and a worth while item if it works. But, I have
> a few basic thoughts about how one would go about such a pair of pre-amps
> but am probably way off base so I'll pose the question here:
> What would be the difference in design between these two pre-amps?
>
> 73 de KD4GT
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:13:07 -0500
> From: "Jim Munson" <w4xl at bellsouth.net>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this stuffup?
>
> Message-ID: <004f01c3f0a0$caa943b0$6401a8c0 at Jim>
> References: <4029C8AC.9030302 at mindspring.com>
> <003001c3f097$a102f780$038366a6 at w4bqf2>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: tentec at contesting.com
> Message: 10
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tommy" <aldermant at alltel.net>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 7:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this
> stuffup?
>
>
> >
>
>>Speaking of which, I would like to suggest that Ten Tec modify that cap
>
> they
>
>>sell with the Ten Tec logo on it. I think they would sell more of those
>
> caps
>
>>if the inscription said "MEMBER, Ten Tec Worshipers Cult".
>>
>>Tom/W4BQF
>
>
>
> "Member, Ten Tec Worshipers Cult". Love it. I am going to have that
> message printed on my next batch of QSL cards.
>
> 73 & happy TenTec'ing,
> Jim/W4XL
>
>
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Allan Henry Kaplan" <w1ael at mindspring.com>
>>To: <tentec at contesting.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 1:16 AM
>>Subject: [TenTec] RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this stuff
>
> up?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:55:09 -0600
> From: Steve Weber <kd9bo at mac.com>
> To: tentec at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] RE: Doug's work - Do some of you guys make this
> stuff up?
> Message-ID: <a06020400bc4fe3e671b6@[10.0.1.12]>
> In-Reply-To: <003001c3f097$a102f780$038366a6 at w4bqf2>
> References: <4029C8AC.9030302 at mindspring.com>
> <003001c3f097$a102f780$038366a6 at w4bqf2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: tentec at contesting.com
> Message: 11
>
> Great idea. Where can I place my order???
>
> Are you LISTENING Scott ?
>
> Steve KD9BO
>
>
>>Speaking of which, I would like to suggest that Ten Tec modify that cap they
>>sell with the Ten Tec logo on it. I think they would sell more of those caps
>>if the inscription said "MEMBER, Ten Tec Worshipers Cult".
>>
>>Tom/W4BQF
>>
>
>
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