[TenTec] Off topic: Paul's wire loop antenna report ground wave

Ron Zond k3miy at csonline.net
Fri Jan 9 07:57:33 EST 2004

Rob and group

There is a ground wave, and there is a space wave. The groundwave loses its
effectiveness at about 3 MHz. due to dielectric losses. If ionospheric
propagation is not available at  14 MHz and above,  communication over a
limited distance is still possible via the space wave. This component
travels at the height of the antenna, and can provide communications at a
limited distance. If the antenna is raised higher, the signal will travel
further, just as VHF signals do.Also, the groundwave is more apparent when
using a vertical antenna at low frequencies, which is one of the reasons
broadcast stations use them.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Atkinson, K5UJ" <k5uj at hotmail.com>
To: <rohre at arlut.utexas.edu>; <tentec at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Off topic: Paul's wire loop antenna report ground wave

> Paul, you'd better flood your property with salt water, put up a 1/2 wave
> helical thingy, operate pactor and enjoy your 5 watt "ground wave" on 2
> meters.  I'd like for someone to please explain to me why TV and FM
> broadcast stations on VHF put their antennas up 1000 feet or more if they
> have a ground wave to work with, and why they disappear into the noise
> I drive away over the horizon from them.  Where's their ground wave?
> Cheers,
> Rob/K5UJ
> From: "Stuart Rohre" <rohre at arlut.utexas.edu>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> CC: <k5uj at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Off topic:  Paul's wire loop antenna report ground
> wave
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:56:19 -0600
> Paul, Ground Wave not there above 3 MHz?  It is there, in fact an antenna
> developed here at the research lab did Ground wave near 10m band out to
> miles!  That was with the Folded Conical Helical invented by Dr. Robert L.
> Rogers and team, which they call the FLEX antenna. We also did it with
> helical 10m ham sticks, and with a half wave 10m antenna, (vertical).
> was done over salt water.  Ground wave exists for all frequencies.  It is
> what works your simplex modes at 2m, etc.
> There are noise issues at one frequency vs. others, but ground wave on HF
> very useable.  Incidentally, our testing was at 5 Watts Pactor II.
> 73,
> Stuart Rohre
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