[TenTec] omni v short dits
Duane A Calvin
ac5aa at juno.com
Sun Jul 25 20:01:04 EDT 2004
"Uncle."
73, Duane
On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 15:08:10 -0400 "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq at iglou.com> writes:
> I beg to differ! With affection of course.
>
> That ratio concept didn't get started until recently when the JA's
> came out
> with it on their internal rig keyers and tried to pass it off as
> weighting.
> You can see this on the ICOM rigs. That's why everyone uses external
> keyers
> with the IC-706 in QSK mode. The ratio adjustment won't correct the
> chicken
> pecking dits! The ratio between dit and dah is NOT weight. The ratio
> is
> supposed to be a 3 to 1, dash to dot at all times. That has always
> been the
> standard. Anything other than that is strictly improvising.
>
> Weighting however can be varied to compensate for speed and
> conditions.
> Weighting will change the time gap between dit and dah in a
> character. Back
> in the old days, we used an ohmmeter to adjust the weight by holding
> dits
> and adjusting for half scale on the meter.
>
> 73
> Steve N4LQ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duane A Calvin" <ac5aa at juno.com>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
>
>
> > That's only because the K1/K3 don't do weight properly. Weight
> should be
> > the ratio between the dit and dah length, not "on vs off" time in
> each
> > element.
> >
> > 73, Duane
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 12:49:16 -0400 "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq at iglou.com>
> writes:
> > > This is really so simple and the K3 propaganda has folks
> confused.
> > > Simply put. Some rigs chop dits. Your keyer makes a nice heavy
> dit
> > > and the
> > > rig shortens it.
> > > There is a cure....Increase the weight of your keying.
> > > You can do this with most any elcheapo MFJ keyer.
> > > Idiot Press's K3 not only has a weight setting but what they
> call a
> > > "keying
> > > compensation" adjustment. They are blowing smoke about the
> "delay"
> > > issue
> > > just to make you think their keyer has something that others
> don't.
> > > Here is proof to the doubters.
> > > Listen to yourself on another receiver. Try changing the weight
> and
> > > compensation and LISTEN. You will see that they do EXACTLY the
> same
> > > thing to
> > > your signal. They are duplicate controls.
> > > The only difference is in the sidetone of the K3 keyer. The
> sidetone
> > > will
> > > follow the weight control but not the compensation setting.
> > > People gobble up this compensation talk like it's the final cure
> for
> > > their
> > > QSK ills and rate the K3 very high while all along it has no
> > > advantage to
> > > other keyers and in fact, I found the timing of their "mode B"
> to
> > > be
> > > slightly different than a real Curtis chip and am able to key
> with
> > > less
> > > errors on the real thing. 73
> > > Steve N4LQ
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tommy" <aldermant at alltel.net>
> > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 11:52 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > >
> > >
> > > > It must be Sunday because my brain cell just can not tell the
> > > difference
> > > > between increasing the key-on time and decreasing the key-off
> > > time, and
> > > > changing the weight ratio of a character.
> > > >
> > > > If you delay the key closure, you are not keying anything, so
> how
> > > does
> > > that
> > > > increase something that has not started yet?
> > > >
> > > > If you delay the key closure to "decrease the keying-off
> time",
> > > how can
> > > you
> > > > decrease the off time of something that has not started?
> > > >
> > > > Maybe this is one of those things that are much harder to
> explain
> > > the to
> > > > actually do? The radio is not going to (obviously) start
> producing
> > > RF
> > > until
> > > > the key is closed, so if your delaying the time before you
> close
> > > the key,
> > > > the radio is just sitting there staring at you, until you
> actually
> > > close
> > > the
> > > > key.
> > > >
> > > > I think I need a beer. At least it's something to ponder for
> the
> > > rest of
> > > the
> > > > day. Make that two beers!
> > > >
> > > > Tom - W4BQF
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Don Watters" <ve1bn at eastlink.ca>
> > > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 9:45 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Steve -
> > > > >
> > > > > You asked "How does the rig know it's "make" is being
> delayed
> > > by a
> > > > keyer?"
> > > > >
> > > > > It's the reverse, the key closure is delayed to increase
> key-on
> > > time,
> > > or
> > > > > decrease
> > > > > keying-off time, by the amount of mS you set to match the
> rig's
> > > on
> > > delay.
> > > > > The
> > > > > adjustment is independent of speed and is used to correct
> > > keying
> > > > distortion
> > > > > of
> > > > > various transceivers.
> > > > >
> > > > > You will note that ARRL tests of key closure versus signal
> > > transmit
> > > delay
> > > > of
> > > > > different rigs are shown. I measured the mS needed to
> > > compensate my
> > > > > rigs from those test pix. The Paragon II was "dead on"
> using
> > > the
> > > Paragon
> > > > > (1)
> > > > > test results. Saved a lot of fussin".
> > > > >
> > > > > 73 - Don VE1BN at eastlinbk.ca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq at iglou.com>
> > > > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 9:17 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes sir. I had a K3 Super Duper CMOS here for some time.
> I
> > > sold it
> > > > because
> > > > > I
> > > > > > didn't like the mode B emulation. Other than that, it's
> ok.
> > > Listening
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > weight vs. "keying compensation" adjustment in another
> > > receiver, they
> > > > > seem
> > > > > > to do exactly the same thing which is to increase the
> length
> > > of the
> > > > > > characters. The only difference is that the "keying
> > > compensation"
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > affect the K3's racus sidetone.
> > > > > > Now I have a question about one of your statements.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Keying compensation allows the make to be delayed so
> that
> > > the start
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > rig's
> > > > > > > keying envelope matches the keyer. The weight control
> is
> > > different."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How does the rig know it's "make" is being delayed by a
> > > keyer?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, for some rigs, especially ICOMS, when used in QSK
> > > mode, extra
> > > > > weight
> > > > > > is needed. When I use my MFJ 407 with the PROII in QSK
> mode, I
> > > simply
> > > > > crank
> > > > > > up the weight control about 30%. In Semi-bkin mode, I turn
> it
> > > back to
> > > > > > normal. The sidetone in the PROII reflects this change
> and
> > > sounds
> > > rather
> > > > > > heavy. When using the K3 keyer, you get the same exact
> effect
> > > when
> > > > > > increasing either the "weight" or "compensation". If you
> can
> > > stand to
> > > > > listen
> > > > > > to the sick duck sidetone of the K3, the weight of the
> > > sidetone is
> > > > > preserved
> > > > > > by increasing the "compensation" instead of the "weight".
> So
> > > basically
> > > > the
> > > > > > "compensation" adjustment is a gimmick.
> > > > > > Most TenTec rigs do not seem to require additional weight
> but
> > > las Tom
> > > > > > mentioned, the Omni 6+ does need a little help over about
> 45
> > > WPM. The
> > > > > Orion
> > > > > > seems to be rather unpredictable in this reguard. Mine
> was
> > > choppy at
> > > > first
> > > > > > then I upgraded the software and it sounded much better
> but my
> > > QSK
> > > > became
> > > > > > slow. Maybe there's a relation!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steve N4LQ
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Don Watters" <ve1bn at eastlink.ca>
> > > > > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 7:45 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whatever, Steve. Please don't take me for a fool.
> Guess I
> > > am just
> > > a
> > > > > > lucky
> > > > > > > fellow
> > > > > > > with a CMOS Superkeyer 3 which can compensate keying in
> > > various
> > > rigs.
> > > > > > Ever
> > > > > > > try one? Was a cmcl op, used a bug for 40 years from
> early
> > > ham
> > > days
> > > > in
> > > > > > > 1946
> > > > > > > until I sold my little Zephyr 5 years ago. I've used
> the
> > > CMOS for
> > > the
> > > > > past
> > > > > > > 9.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Guess I'm a true blue CW op too!! I know you don't
> > > tighten the
> > > > dits
> > > > > up
> > > > > > > on a bug
> > > > > > > as close as suggested.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keying compensation allows the make to be delayed so
> that
> > > the start
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > rig's
> > > > > > > keying envelope matches the keyer. The weight control
> is
> > > different.
> > > > > It
> > > > > > > shortens
> > > > > > > the spacing of characters, sort of runs them together if
> too
> > > much
> > > > weight
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > set. Big
> > > > > > > difference. These are heard in the Ten-Tec sidetones.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Was just suggesting a possible solution, but forget it
> OM,
> > > you
> > > > > apparently
> > > > > > > already
> > > > > > > have the answers....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > By the way, no offence taken or meant.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 73 - Don VE1BN at eastlink.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gosh. just seems to do the job. ----- Original
> Message
> > > -----
> > > > > > > From: "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq at iglou.com>
> > > > > > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:06 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Keying compensation? Delay? Sounds like a line from
> the K3
> > > manual.
> > > I
> > > > > > > suppose
> > > > > > > > if he had a keyer he could crank up the weight but
> I'm
> > > not sure
> > > > the
> > > > > > ole
> > > > > > > > boy owns one. He's a true, blue cw op! Bug only! BTW:
> That
> > > "keying
> > > > > > > > compensation" is just another weight control. The
> only
> > > difference
> > > in
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > and a regular weight control on a Curtis keyer is the
> fact
> > > that it
> > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > affect the sidetone (which few people use anyway).
> > > > > > > > Steve N4LQ
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Don Watters" <ve1bn at eastlink.ca>
> > > > > > > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:19 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Steve -
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any way he can set the keying compensation? I
> found my
> > > Paragon
> > > > II
> > > > > > > needed
> > > > > > > > > about 15 mS delay to give a smooth keying
> > > characteristic. No
> > > > > shortened
> > > > > > > > makes
> > > > > > > > > or clicks. Worth a try if he can set it up.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 73 - Don, VE1BN at eastlink.ca
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq at iglou.com>
> > > > > > > > > To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:30 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A friend of mine has an Omni V and he is trying to
> use a
> > > bug
> > > > however
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > dits are being chopped so badly that he can't use
> it.
> > > I've never
> > > > had
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > TenTec rig that chopped dits like this one. I've
> hear
> > > him on the
> > > > air
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > even with his dit weight screwed to almost touching,
> he
> > > sounds
> > > > > > horrible.
> > > > > > > > > It's like something is wrong in the keying circuit.
> Has
> > > anyone
> > > > > > > experienced
> > > > > > > > > this?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Steve N4LQ
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > TenTec mailing list
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------
> > Duane Calvin, AC5AA
> > Austin, Texas
> >
> > http://home.austin.rr.com/ac5aa
> > _______________________________________________
> > TenTec mailing list
> > TenTec at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
> >
>
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>
--------------------------------------
Duane Calvin, AC5AA
Austin, Texas
http://home.austin.rr.com/ac5aa
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