[TenTec] Re: CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 17, Issue 20

[Richard Detweiler]

Interesting reading from the other reflector.

The Idea of the Orion Expedition V is very nice,  a smaller more robust 
version with color display and bullet proof operation would be nice next 
step in the evolution.

To help in thing,  by following of the threads here a few months ago,  There 
was some pretty harsh words exchanged and perhaps some still remembers them 
clearly and painfully.  I'm sure allot of people would like to pull back on 
some of those words.

I would look to the future,  There is opportunity for everyone and I 
personally would enjoy seeing what the DR1 would be as much as I would enjoy 
seeing the Orion improved on.

I have a different path,  That is to see the American Radio art improved 
beyond it's current place.  That isn't going to happen without the leaders 
running hard to stay ahead.

Clearly,  Very clearly, the Hardware of the Orion tops anything,  Yuri and 
everyone else is clearly saying that.  No one will argue this point.  The 
Orion is the Standard to beat.

I am more than happy to work with people who want to see the Orion be 
better,  I am equally happy to see a good idea come to production.

It Advances the Ham Radio art.  If the DR1 can come to production and even 
only serve a few,  it is worth it. To see what technology combinations Yuri 
comes up with will perhaps be an inspiration that further advances of our 
Hobby.

For me having had the Orion for a while now,  the Fun is back in the Hobby,  
I am bothered by some aspects of the Orion which I wont discuss here, but 
for me I actually enjoy tinkering with it's innards and trying to figure out 
where it could be improved.  Seems to me the firmware has a lot of 
possibilities and challenges.  Any SDR is going to have this challenge and 
by putting it out,  the next Generation has a standard to beat.  That is my 
fun.

The definition of SDR is that it can and should be improved on.  So,  Why 
not improve on it.

I remember buying a rig from a foreign company,  and it literally turned me 
off of Ham radio for a few years,  At the time it was all I could afford.  
Everyone was saying it was the best,  many years later, though,  it was 
determined by the community to be a total flop.  That kind of disappointment 
is what we have to avoid in every piece of equipment.  We have to aspire to 
provide good Rigs for New hams coming in to the hobby.  I think Ten Tec and 
any others willing to pioneer the way is the answer for the future.

73's
Rich
K5SF



>From: "Ron Notarius" <wn3vaw at verizon.net>
>Reply-To: tentec at contesting.com
>To: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
>CC: tentec at contesting.com
>Subject: [TenTec] Re: CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 17, Issue 20
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:01:59 -0400
>
>Actually Yuri, rumor has it that Ten Tec is going to counter the new Yaesu 
>&
>ICOM rigs sometime soon.
>
>It will be three Orion's in a blister pack!
>
>Seriously, I don't understand your continued animosity towards the Orion in
>particular and Ten Tec in general.  While I don't own one yet, I have had
>many opportunities to use one from a local ham, both in casual operating 
>and
>in contest situations, and I've never had a problem with it.  For that
>matter, outside of a few minor tips the owner showed me (which I would have
>caught on to quickly), I found operating the Orion to be very intuitive,
>unlike some of the recent offerings from the Big Three.  And I don't
>understand your complaints about ergonomics; a color display would have 
>been
>pretty, but other than that, I never ran into any of the concerns you
>mentioned.
>
>I think the "how many people" comment about returns deserves some
>quantification.  First, how many is "how many?"  Second, let us not forget
>that no matter how well a rig is designed, your dream rig is someone else's
>nightmare, so matter what, there will always be returns.  And third, let us
>not forget that Ten Tec, to their credit, has the most liberal return 
>policy
>around.  Naturally it gets taken advantage of (in both senses of the term!)
>
>Finally, I think that crack about the "Ten-Tec hallelujah" reflector was
>uncalled for.  Just because someone doesn't agree with you, that does not
>mean that they are a zealot for the other side.  Careful reading of the
>reflector posts over the last few months would clearly show that while most
>Orion owners are very happy, there have been problems (what rig doesn't 
>have
>problems in the production run?), there have been returns to the factory,
>and some have gotten their money back.  You don't have to "lurk" there to
>find this out.
>
>73, ron wn3vaw
>
>----- Original Message -----
> > Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:36:57 EDT
> > From: K3BU at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Dayton atendees - tell us about the new
> > Yaesu
> > To: cq-contest at contesting.com
> > Message-ID: <155.3517208f.2dda5239 at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> > Howdy conquesters!
> >
> > I will report briefly on things that were of interest to me in the area 
>of
> > rigs, receiver performance and where are we going.
> >
> > If I had to judge by Icom and Yaesu offerings in the top end (heavy
>suckers)
> > radios, like IC7800 and FT9000 (bigger number Eh?), then gentlemen, 
>start
>your
> > engines! This at least according to Icom display featuring cutout
>automotive
> > engine, racing jackets, pile of JA rig drivers, or perhaps helpers to
>carry
> > the radio. This is when seen from the distance. 7800 is reality, looks
>nice,
> > ergonomics are supreb in the Icom fashion, I would say decent value for
>the
> > money.
> >
> > In the other corner, from closer look at Yaesu booth, not much racing
>stuff,
> > except more mature version of K7JA and bullet proof plexi case over
>FT9000,
> > the DX DNA "thing". This must be on steroids, because the sucker would
>require
> > one and half JA sumo carriers. Rumors are that it will weigh about 70 
>lbs.
>For
> > sure 400 W Godzilla among the rigs. Judging by the plexi condom, this 
>was
>just
> > cardboard mockup, dummy, there was no action on the displays, just as
>shown
> > on the brochure.
> >
> > So, in the competition for the biggest, baddest mother of all radios,
>appears
> > that Yaesu is the (theoretical) leader, with Icom real thing right 
>behind
>at
> > 50 lbs and with bunch of "happy" owners already. In category of
>performance,
> > Icom radio is out, can be measured, tested and some real specs will be
> > available soon. Yaesu has only foggy specs, everybody is claiming out of
>this world
> > performance, beating the others, but indication based on reality is not
>exactly
> > IT.
> >
> > Rob Sherwood, AC0B gave RX performance and testing presentation at the
> > contest forum. He outlined importance of front end design architecture 
>and
>presented
> > some data on his tests. The clear winners are the old/new classic radios
>with
> > low IF single conversion mixing scheme and at close spacing front end
> > overload test the leaders are Orion and "Sherwooded" Drake R4C. The
>detailed chart
> > should be posted on Rob's web site. IC7800 was down on the totem pole 
>and
>at
> > close spacing test (done by ARRL on pre-production sample) is not what 
>the
>foggy
> > specs are claiming. It should be noted that marketing departments of the
> > biggies are not shy of blowing things up, especially at their own
>unspecified
> > terms. So before I would plonk my hard earned dollars for any of those
>over $10k
> > pieces of furniture, I would wait for more info and test results
>especially
> > because I care about overload and selectivity performance.
> >
> > The Orion, as I reported earlier in my review (www.K3BU.us) has 
>excellent
> > strong signal handling capabilities, filtering, good clean transmit
>signals, but
> > lot of ergonomic shortcomings and unfinished buggy software engine. For
>this
> > contester, it does not fare well for those reasons. When you read
>advertising,
> > they all say THIS IS IT! When you get your hands on IT, it is something,
>but
> > not IT. It has one thing better, then the others, but it is left to the
>user to
> > pick the least of the evil based on what you don't care for. While 
>talking
>to
> > contest buddies at the hospitality suites, I was quite surprised to find
>how
> > many people had problems with Orion and sent it back. Lurking on 
>"Ten-Tec
> > hallelujah" reflector you will not find this out.
> >
> > As far as contester's concerns, and expeditioners in particular, I doubt 
>I
> > would take any of the above on expedition. The scratch on the covers 
>might
>take
> > away $3k out of the price. I would not check it in for the airline
>Gorillas to
> > play football with gem like that and it is definitely out of question to
>fit
> > IT in carry on luggage.  IC7800 is more realistic in that department, 
>but
> > FT9000 is more for people with private Yacht or airplane.
> >
> > Don't despair. George, W2VJN is working on, displayed some, and coming 
>out
> > with roofing filters for the rest of the "old loser" radios like FT1000D
>etc.,
> > so don't dump them yet. While they would still use high IF upconversion,
>but
> > the improvement in performance would rival IC7800, going from 60ies some
>dBs to
> > high 80ies (Orion is in low 90ies). My personal opinion is that this is
>the
> > more realistic alternative to $10k gorilla radios. If you like expensive
> > furniture and big size and money is no object, the go for it and enjoy 
>the
>sculpted
> > monsters.
> >
> > DSP is coming on strong, displacing more and more circuitry, making 
>things
> > more flexible, shrinking size and cost. Quite a few vendors displaying 
>DSP
>based
> > receivers and spectrum analyzers. Not ready for prime time yet, but 
>around
> > the corner. Interesting times are ahead and contesters have a lot to 
>look
> > forward too. More help with operating and integration of
> > computer-radio-gadgets-software is on the horizon.
> >
> > My personal impression  is that Orion is "bad" enough, I enjoy it's 
>strong
> > signal handling performance, hate its guts for quitting on me in the
>middle of
> > the contest run, clumsy controls and ergonomics, but for the run radio 
>it
>would
> > do, if supplemented with IC781 or other race horse. IC7800 or FT9000? 
>Not
>at
> > this time and for THAT money. I am not into collecting expensive
>furniture. I
> > beat my radios on the trips, no diapers around here, I look for
>performance
> > and functionality for decent price. Until my "Dream Radio One" becomes
>reality I
> > am happy with Orion, FT1000D, IC781, TS950 (all filtered and modified) 
>for
> > serious contesting, TS870 for carry on expeditioning, IC706 for 
>portable,
>mobile
> > fooling around.
> >
> > Personally, I got preview of what's cooking and got reinforced in my
>strategy
> > and design goals for "Computeradio DR1". I see what is available, where
>the
> > technology is going, I know what I and other's want. After I was
>challenged by
> > one of the Ten-Tec Cult worshippers to design better radio, I decided to
> > embark on the task of putting together that DREAM radio I and YOU have
>been
> > dreaming about. The project has started, design is in progress, the 
>DREAM
>TEAM is
> > coming along very nicely, so soon you will be able to enjoy the radio
>station
> > that will outperform the rest for a reasonable cost. Those interested 
>can
>check
> > the web site www.computeradio.us for the latest info and any comments 
>and
> > requests for features are welcome.
> >
> > It was a great pleasure to be back in Dayton after long pause, meeting 
>old
> > friends and competitors, I enjoyed the forums, dinners, midnight pizza
>with old
> > contesting buddies. Now back to salt mines.
> >
> > 73 Yuri, www.K3BU.us
> > www.computeradio.us home of DR1
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
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