[TenTec] TT (Orion) Future improvements!!!

Sun Feb 13 22:18:02 EST 2005

Geoff,

You're exactly right.  The TS-430S represented the next generation in it's
day; the Argosy, and later the Argosy-D, was the last of the previous
generation.  So putting them side by side was not fair.  Nope, not fair at
all.  Not in the slightest.

But I did it.

I should have explained (again); at the time, I worked in a now-defunct
Amateur Radio store in Pittsburgh selling transceivers of all sorts.  And I
should add, I owned a TS-430 myself during the time.  So you could say that
I had every reason to be biased in favor of the 430.

But I not only sold, but used the Argosy -- and the Corsair, the Argonaut
509 & 515, the 430, the 930, and the equivalent ICOM & Yaesu rigs, the
Dentron Amps, the Nye Vikings, the Astrons, and so on and so forth.  We felt
it helped to explain the radios, and to compare & contrast them on request,
if we actually had some hands-on use of our own.

Comparing/contrasting the Corsair & TS-930 was easy; they sat on the
operating/display table side by side.  I had to pull the display Argosy off
the shelf and hook it up next to the 430 anytime I wanted to contrast the
too.

Keep in mind, too, that the 430 sold in the $675 neighborhood, give or take.
The 525 was a $499 rig in most markets (the 525D was sold for about $30 more
when it replaced the 525).  Forget that "missing" two HF bands on the 525,
or the fact that it only had 1 crystal filter socket.

So, strip away the bells & whistles.  Forget the two digital VFO's, the
memories, the general coverage receiver (which was easily converted to a GC
transceiver, involved clipping a wire as I remember -- mine was so modified)
and the other chazeri.  Concentrate on PERFORMANCE.  On how the radios
sounded on the air, on how well they received signals, on the reports that
the stations you worked told you.

9 or more times out of 10, when the evaluating amateur was honest with me
and with him (or her) self, the Argosy beat the TS-430S on receive and was
equal to it on transmit.

So on paper, no, it wasn't fair, the 430 should have blown the 525 out of
the water every time.  It didn't, not when it counted; it was the other way
around.  Go figure.

Now, why couldn't I sell more Argosy's?  It wasn't for lack of trying (and I
wasn't paid commission, so it didn't matter which rig I sold).  Some people
wanted the digital readout, the digital memories and so forth, and didn't
mind spending the difference.  Some wanted a top of the line rig... and
frankly, I did sell a lot more Corsairs than 930's (and I'm not slighting
the equivalent ICOM & Yaesu rigs, but we sold more Kenwoods than the other
two, which is another story -- suffice to say that Kenwood & Ten Tec were
our top two HF sellers, and the others were also-rans).  But when it came to
features versus cost, most people who picked the 430 over the 525 cited the
power output as the deciding factor.  I can honestly say that, IMHO, if a
100 W version of the 525/525D existed, and the retail cost difference
between it and the 430 was more than $100, I believe that I would have sold
a lot more 525's.

(And I should mention that there was, at least in the Pittsburgh area, one
other factor against the Argosy's.  Someone started a rumor that Ten-Tec was
lying, that the Argosy was actually made in Mexico, not TN.  The "proof"?
It wasn't stamped "Made in USA."  Now as I recall, at the time, the law
stated that you only had to put a "made in" stamp or sticker on something if
it was NOT made in the USA, but somehow that logic was ignored.  I don't
know who started the tall tale, but I remember that one guy who pushed it a
lot on a local repeater was the same guy who was mad at me for not giving
him prices and technical help when he called me on the phone... via the
local repeater's autopatch, which I could clearly hear on one of the 2 meter
demo rigs, but I'm really digressing here)

The sad thing about the lack of the "local" ham store in most communities,
and the (not unrelated) lack of Ten Tec dealers, is that it is now truly
difficult to put two similar -- or dissimilar -- rigs side by side and
easily compare their features, by yourself as the buyer, in a real-world
experience.  At least Ten-Tec gives you a 30 day evaluation; with most
remaining dealers, you buy it, you keep it.

73, ron wn3vaw

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm at mendelson.com>
To: <tentec at contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] TT (Orion) Future improvements!!!

> On Sun, Feb 13, 2005 at 08:45:45PM -0500, Ron Notarius wrote:
> > For example:  Remember the Argosy.  Back in the day, I could put an
Argosy
> > and a TS-430S side by side.  I'd estimate that about 90% of the time, if
you
> > gave it an honest evaluation on receive, it was at worst a wash, but
usually
> > the Argosy could hear things better with less noise.  And if you put
both
> > rigs on the same station & antenna & switched back and forth, I can not
ever
> > recall a single time that the guy on the other end said the 430 sounded
> > better than the 525; either there was no difference or the other way
around.
> > So why did we sell about ten or more 430's to every 525?  Power output.
100
> > W out vs. 50.  And don't bother telling me that it's only a 3dB
difference,
> > and that you probably wouldn't notice that on the air -- because it's
true.
> > But people who were willing to accept the lack of bells & whistles, or
of a
> > digital readout (until the 525D came out), or of 12 & 17 meter coverage
kept
> > stopping dead at the power output.  Maybe it was a convenient excuse for
> > some, but the bottom line is that I kept hearing "if only the Argosy put
out
> > a 100 Watts!"
>
> Ron, I disagree completely. The 430 was an entirely different rig. The
> Argosy was an old timer by that time. It was a PTO tuned, analog rig
> while the 430 was a digital, PLL synthesized rig, with many more features.
>
> The 430 had a general coverage receiver, the Argosy did not. The 430
> had two "VFOs" built in and could work split the Argosy could not.
> The 430 received and transmitted in AM and FM the Argosy could not.
> The 430 had 8 memories the Argosy had none.
>
> Quite simply the 430 was the future of ham radio at the time and the
> Argosy was its past.
>
> I'm not saying the Argosy was a bad rig, I'm just saying that comparing
> it to a 430 was not fair. The 430 had in one box features that an Argosy
> user could only dream of.
>
> It's a matter of company focus. Kenwood went with the do everything
> you can and do some of them well concept, TenTec went with the do
> few things, but be the best.
>
> Geoff.
>
> -- 
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm at mendelson.com  N3OWJ/4X1GM
> IL Voice: 972-544-608-069  IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice:
1-215-821-1838
> VoIP (Email to schedule) Free World Dialup: 523178  Skype: gsmendelson
> _______________________________________________
> TenTec mailing list
> TenTec at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>