[TenTec] An Orion II Reality Check

Thu Jul 21 09:38:58 EDT 2005

Mike, 

Thanks for your comments.  You and I have known each other for a long time
(although it's been a long time since we've corresponded), so I'm a bit surprised
by the personal nature of your comments.  

That notwithstanding, I disagree with some, possibly many of your comments.  So be
it.  Others I can't and will not comment on, due to a lack of knowledge of the
field.  

I will, however, make a few comments. 

1.  Buying parts in quantity. This is a great idea. However, one must have the
capitol to do it and the business plan to support it.  "last buyout" is not always
offered by manufacturers.  This was the case with Motorola in the personal
experience I referred to. I can tell you more about it privately, as it was a very
ugly, serious and damaging circumstance. 

2.  Who is this radio targeted to? Not the existing Orion owner.  It's the person
who would consider buying a Pro II (or whatever) because of the color screen
rather than the filtering setup or other tweaks (my term). 

3. Should you have purchased an Orion to start with?  Knowing you, Mike, you
should have gotten a FlexRadio and I should have gotten a G5 instead of the PC I
just picked up :-)   This is purely a judgment call on your part. I assume you're
past the no-fault return period, otherwise I'd send it back. 

4. Was I hoodwinked by the TT PR machine?  What PR machine?  I don't think so, but
then again, I've been in their position, understand what's going on and have no
personal, emotional or financial state in whatever it is that they may or may not do. 

...and so it goes. 

Regards -- 

Eric 

---- Original message ----
>>Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:09:53 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: k3mc at arrl.net 
>>Subject: Re: [TenTec] An Orion II Reality Check  
>>To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec at contesting.com>
>>Cc: PVRC Reflector <pvrc at mailman.qth.net>
>>
>>On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Eric Rosenberg wrote:
>>
>>
>>> After reading the flood of email crossing my screen, it occurred to me
>>> that many, if not most writers did not take the time to read and
>>> understand the original posting from Ten Tec.
>>>
>>> I spoke with Scott Robbins this afternoon for clarification, and
>>> learned the following, some of which has been mentioned in postings
>>> here on the reflector.
>>>
>>> ---------------
>>>
>>> - The processor used in the Orion has been discontinued and is no
>>> longer available.  Ten Tec was therefore forced to discontinue the
>>> production of the Orion in its present form.  They had no say in the
>>> matter and had to make a choice to a) drop out of the high-end
>>> transceiver market, b) design an completely new radio, or c) modify the
>>> design of the Orion with a new processor.
>>
>>Gee, if only that were true.
>>
>>Firstly, anybody who uses a Freescale processor should have their
>>head examined.  Freescale (nee Motorola) is one of the WORST vendors,
>>in my opinion, for processors.  Seems to me that using an AMD, Intel,
>>Cirrus, VIA or some other high-volume part would make sense.
>>
>>For example, who in their right minds would build a radio today
>>without an Ethernet port?  TT, I guess.
>>
>>
>>(Plus, I'm really tired of poor old TT being duped by those dastardly
>>types over at Freescale.  If TT _really_ wanted to do it right, they would
>>use an FPGA, code up the guts in Verilog, and be able to use their own
>>processor that would _never_ become obsolete and could ride the FPGA
>>semiconductor performance curve.  See http://fpgacpu.org for more, and
>>the http://fpgacpu.org/gr/index.html page about the GR-family of soft
>>processors, for example.)
>>
>>
>>> This is an unfortunate, and sadly, not an uncommon occurance in the
>>> commercial world.  [I have personally had this happen while in the
>>> midst of a large government contract. To say we scrambled for a
>>> solution is a gross understatement.  Our decision on moving forward was
>>> almost exactly the same as Ten Tec's in this instance.]
>>
>>Again, the engineers on the project who picked a part without checking
>>its lifetime should be fired.
>>
>>
>>> - The decision to continue the production of the Orion would be
>>> contingent upon the availability of a compatible, available
>>> processor.
>>
>>Again, this is a CANARD.
>>
>>What a _terribly_ lame excuse.
>>
>>Need I mention that they _could_ buy a few thousand parts right now,
>>so they'd have plenty of stock?  Manufacturers ALWAYS give you a
>>"last buyout" option.  Motorola/Freescale obsoletes parts very fast,
>>so they are used to giving customers this option.
>>
>>> - An upgrade for Orion owners was considered, and a cost/benefit
>>> analysis was produced.  The cost to facilitate the new processor and
>>> the variable line-output enhancement [I specifically asked about this
>>> item] required extensive hardware retrofitting, driving the cost to
>>> over $1000.
>>
>>Lemme see, hmmmm, well, we could code up a Verilog replacement for
>>the CPU for a couple of bucks, and how much would it cost to install
>>a pot on the back to allow "variable line-output" - whoa!  That would
>>be, like, $998 bucks.  Yeah, ok, over $1000 for both, right.....
>>
>>
>>
>>> - When one lines up the features of the Orion and Orion II, you will
>>> note that the hardware changes in the Orion II are functional. The
>>> radio will look the same.  An 8-pin mike connector, a color display and
>>> how it works, the variable line level output and the filter switching
>>> do not change or upgrade the RF characteristics (receiver and
>>> transmitter) of the radio.
>>
>>These are trivial changes.  They are so trivial, they hardly deserve
>>being called "II".
>>
>>I will be the first to predict that there will be "mod kits" that convert
>>Is into IIs except perhaps for B&W -> Color screen, although even that
>>is conceivable.
>>
>>
>>> - The change in the physical filters is a result of newer technology.
>>> The performance of these new filters will be at the same level as the
>>> presently available INRAD after-market filters.
>>
>>Again, such a minor tweak.
>>
>>
>>> Likewise, it is my understanding from both reading the email and
>>> speaking with Scott that the DSP code changes have not changed the
>>> receiver specifications.
>>
>>Again, WHY would ANYBODY in their right minds want an Orion II ???  For
>>a color screen?  Well, Okay .....
>>
>>
>>> - This new version of the Orion presents an incremental upgrade to the
>>> original Orion.  The market is not those of us who already own an
>>> Orion.  It's targeted to the ham who's looking to buy a new high-end
>
>>> radio. The potential Icom Pro III buyer, who's willing and able to pay
>>> $4000 for a new radio.
>>
>>I bought my Orion on June 1st.  I could easily have waited.  But, I figured,
>>after nearly 2 years of s/w development, maybe they got the bugs out.
>>
>>Boy, was I wrong!
>>
>>I've since conclude that TT does not have a _clue_ about how to develop
>>s/w.  They certainly won't release it, like they release their schematics
>>and in general "open up" their other radios.
>>
>>And I think I know why:
>>
>>I think their code is a hairball full of bug-riddled spaghetti code!
>>
>>They just aren't proud of it, because it's written so poorly, I believe.
>>
>>Why _else_ wouldn't they release it?
>>
>>(BTW, from what I can tell, the DSP code is pretty good.  It's the control
>>code I'm talking about.)
>>
>>
>>> - The email announcing this radio was sent to the Ten Tec email
>>> reflector before being released to the general public in a conscious

>>> attempt by Ten Tec to inform its current customers of what was going to
>>> happen before hearing about it from a secondary source.
>>>
>>
>>Like, ahhh, top-secret information sources like, ahh, their website?
>>
>>
>>
>>> ---------------
>>> My personal feeling is that Ten Tec made the correct business decision
>>> based on the situation it faced.
>>>
>>> I do not believe Ten Tec has violated its corporate policy to support
>>> all existing products.
>>>
>>> I believe this is an incremental product entry, not a new radio as was
>>> the Orion when compared to the then top-of-the-line Omni VI Plus.
>>>
>>> When the dust settles, I am certain that Ten Tec will have more
>>> information for all of us.
>>>
>>> In the meantime and to reiterate the words of N1EU, sit down, take a
>>> DEEP breath and chill!
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Eric W3DQ
>>> Washington, DC
>>
>>
>>Sounds like the TT PR machine got to you, Eric.
>>
>>Best -Mike K3MC