[TenTec] Orion & SDR1000 thoughts (GOOD post)

Thu Mar 30 19:25:54 EST 2006

Yes,  that was a good post,  but makes me wonder if maybe most of us will
transition to SDR rigs like the one put out by Flex Radio as it becomes a
mature technology in the next few years.   If the Orion is the end of a
transition period and the next step is SDR rigs,  then the logical step for
Ten Tec is to get on board and get into the game.

But Hey,  lets get 2.0 working right first!       Toby  W4CAK

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Able2fly at aol.com>
To: <tentec at contesting.com>
Cc: <lee_crocker at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: [TenTec] Orion & SDR1000 thoughts (GOOD post)

>
> Lee, that's the best post I've seen the two years I've been reading  here.
>
> Thanks,  Bill  K3UJ
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I have  one Orion and two SDR-1000's.  I've had the
> Orion for 2 years, and at  least 1 SDR for about 6
> months.
>
> My experience is the SDR is a better  weak signal
> receiver than the Orion.  I have the radios set up  on
> equivalent full size 80 and 40M vertical antennas.  I
> have the  outputs of the rigs into a 3 channel stereo
> mixer so I can play one radio  into one ear the other
> radio into the other ear, or I can have both  radio's
> in both ears and use the mutes to switch.  The bottom
> line  is what you can hear.
>
> On CW the SDR is a slightly better radio.   It is
> quieter and it has better selectivity.  In a recent
> contest I  was able to work 2 DX stations (s3 or so in
> strength) in different parts of  the world that were
> 50hz apart, each being called by S9 plus 20  american
> stations.  It was a very enlightening experience.   In
> other words there were 2 desired stations 50hz apart
> with a variable  number of american stations calling in
> the picture.  I was not able to  do the same with the
> Orion, but it was close.  This represents in  my
> experience a very intense level real world experience,
> something the  ARRL numbers really don't address.
>
> In weak signal work without  the limitations of strong
> stations a few hz away the radios are closer  in
> performance.  The SDR is quieter to listen to.  It
> reminds  me of my old Paragon.  It has a point and
> shoot virtually real time  band scope.  That means I
> can view about 30khz of a band on the scope  in
> panadapter mode and I can see signals that are
> virtually in the  noise.  Coherent signals look
> different than random noise.  There  is a cross hair
> pointer that I can place over a signal and click and
> the  signal is centered in the passband of the
> receiver.  It is very easy  to point and click signals
> even into a 100hz passband.  With a steady  hand you
> can do it into a 50hz passband but I find myself
> "tuning" to  center the signal if I use 50hz.
>
> The advantage of this is that  you can cover a whole
> segment of a band like the low end of 80 or 160  with
> just a couple dozen clicks.  It is extremely efficient
> having  the panadapter and the point and shoot since
> you are basically spending all  your time listening to
> where stations are and almost no time listening  to
> where stations are not.
>
> It is NOT a QSK cw radio by any  streach of the
> imagination.  To send CW you need to use an  external
> side tone.  It is virtually impossible to use the
> internal  side tone.  To send adequate CW you need to
> use an external  keyer.  Using my K-4 idiom press I can
> transmit 60 wpm cw and receive  in in another receiver
> letter perfect.  I use a 3.3ghz P4 and a  presonus
> firebox which is the high end of the
> computer/soundcard  needed.  It is not nearly as
> convienent as the Orion to use.  The  Orion behaves
> like you would expect a radio to behave.   The
> interface in the SDR is a work in progress.  The
> controls that  have been chosen in my opinion are not
> the best that could have been  chosen, like up down
> boxed instead of sliders for volume for example,  but
> the advantage of a software defined radio is that it
> is  plastic.  The code is presently being rewritten to
> seperate the DSP  and back end functions of the radio
> (like the ALC AGC Frequency determining  steps) from
> the interface.  This will allow the interface to  be
> readily changed to how ever you like.
>
> One cool thing about the  SDR is that it gives you a
> lab grade receiver.  The "S meter" actually  reads out
> in dbm.  It can be calibrated against a known  source
> (like 50mV for -73 dbm aka S9) and what you read is
> like having a  calibrated scope hooked up to your
> antenna.  I intend to combine it  with N8LP's new phase
> reading SWR bridge and software control and I  will
> have a transmitting network analyzer of pretty good
> accuracy.
>
> The SSB signal is excellent, at least as good as  the
> Orion.  When I check into my 75M round table the guys
> tend to  like the SDR audio better than the Orion
> though they think both are  excellent.  I have a studio
> quality condensor mic on the SDR and the  TT 705 on the
> Orion.
>
> The noise blanker works better in the  Orion.
>
> As far as "service" goes I have no quibble with  Ten
> Tec.  They have taken good care of me over the years.
> I used  to chat with Al Kahn on CW almost every week
> when I would mobile between  Chicago and Champaign Il
> on Fridays using my old 580 delta and we would  talk
> radios.  He was always interesed in what I had to  say.
>
>
> SDR service is phenomonal.  I have had long chats  with
> the company president, and he is interested in what I
> have to say,  so it kind of reminds me of TT 30 years
> ago.  I have had a lot of help  from the SDR reflector
> community as well.  The changes in the software  are
> far faster and far more extensive in terms of
> performance  improvement.  One guy wrote a really good
> routine to balance out the  quadrature signals.  It was
> included in the next release of the  software.  Another
> guy I think in Austraulia rewrote the AGC software  and
> it was included in short order.  Another guy rewrote
> the CW  keyer with a lot of improved features and it
> was included.  The point  is that this radio is not
> dependent on a top down approach.  It is  very
> colaborative, and world experts who are interested in
> different  aspects are lending their expertise so the
> bench is very deep for the  SDR.  Recently the software
> has been implamented under a versioning  system so if
> you can compile the code you can have a minute by
> minute up  to date version of the code.  If you know
> what you are doing you can  help write the code.
>
> Another group is interesed in the DSP  process.  They
> didn't want to spend $300 on a high end sound card  so
> they went off and are developing a DSP around a FPGA
> board.  So  far they are equivalent to the performance
> of my $300 sound card, and that  with something kludged
> dead bug style on some circuit board.
>
> A third  group is very interested in using the SDR as a
> high performance IF for  vhf/uhf/shf stations so they
> have developed a card that lets you control up  to 32
> relays from the SDR.
>
> The point being is that this radio  over time is the
> future of ham radio.  No it is not yet a contest rig.
> But if you take the time to design a contest interface
> it is my guess  it will beat the pants off other
> contest setups.  Already I can run  the SDR DXing 40M
> or 160M CW with 1500W and ragchew on 75 with  1500W
> simutaneously.  I can't tell in either the Orion or in
> the  SDR that the other station is on the air.  The
> antennas are both  verticals about 120ft apart.   The
> 160 M antenna is even  closer.  No it doesn't have a
> knob.  It has something better  point and shoot.
>
> As far as engineering goes TT is a  well engineered
> product that is built around a certain  design
> philosophy.  If you subscribe to that philosophy the
> TT will  trip your trigger.  It lives up to the design
> I think very well.   If I took out a blank piece of
> paper and designed a radio it would have  been the Omni
> 5, so that's where my design philosophy starts.   I
> never would have designed the TS-940.  The Orion is
> sort of an  ulmitate extension of the Omni 5 design
> philosophy using a computer  controller instead of
> discrete controls.
>
> The SDR is also consistent  with my design philosophy
> being basically a very high performance  single
> conversion RX with the rest being left to  digital
> processing.  I am a big fan of single  conversion
> design.  As such I find them both very appealing.   I
> owned a FT-1000D and while an excellent radio, I never
> really warmed  up to the way it worked with the up
> conversion and all that, so my  experience is colored
> by how I think about the design.
>
> The SDR is  not yet a mature product.  It is a very
> high performance product, but  it still needs some
> ergonomic tuning.  It will get there.
>
> There was a time when we owned a receiver and a
> transmitter and we  used AM and CW.  There were rigs
> like the Collins rigs that  represented the pinnacle of
> that style of operating.  Then we had SSB  and seperate
> RX TX.  The S line and the C line represented  the
> pinnacle of that type of rig.  What followed was the
> era of the  tranceiver, and I think the Orion might
> represent the pinnacle of that era  of ham tranceiver.
> I do not see the high buck jap rigs as competition  to
> the Orion.  I see the SDR-1000 as the beginning of a
> new concept  in ham radio.  I think the experience is
> like the difference between  how a 75A4 collins rig
> works and how the Orion works.  Both  represent
> pinnicles of their repsective era.  I think the SDR  is
> still becomming a mature product
>
> 73  W9OY
>
>
>
>
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