[TenTec] OMNI VII vs. K3 ? Opinions invited.,

Sun Apr 25 10:16:46 PDT 2010

By traditional you mean the coupled wire like a monomatch? Commonly used 
for CB meters. It is directional because it combines capacitive and 
inductive coupling and produces a DC output proportional to voltage and 
current, e.g. watts. Same as the type made by slipping a wire under the 
braid. I've used that style to measure loss in a shorted transmission 
line by comparing forward to reflected power and came up with value that 
matched the coax cable loss tables. I can't subscribe to the voltage 
only premise. The inexpensive meters don't have as fine a directivity to 
show zero reflected with a perfect 50 ohm load but get in the ball park. 
I have a Collins prototype that has functioned perfectly fine on an 
antenna tuner for more than 45 years, though it was rejected because the 
shielding wasn't adequate to reach the directivity they desired. The 
production coupler does meet their wants for 30 dB directivity. On an 
ordinary meter less directivity is adequate for my radios.

There are no pass through pseudo wattmeters with directivity that depend 
solely on voltage. There have been Bird loads that only measure voltage, 
but are calibrated in watts, but then those termalines are a standard of 
reference of what a good 50 ohm load should be.

73, Jerry, K0CQ

On 4/25/2010 11:48 AM, N4PY2 wrote:
> I said traditional wattmeter.  I am referring to inexpensive wattmeters
> that only measure voltage.
>
> Carl Moreschi N4PY
> 121 Little Bell Dr
> Hays, NC 28635
> www.n4py.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson"
> <geraldj at weather.net>
> To: <tentec at contesting.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] OMNI VII vs. K3 ? Opinions invited.,
>
>
>> No, a true wattmeter (Bruene design) takes the vector product of voltage
>> AND current to produce DC proportional to power.
>>
>> 73, Jerry, K0CQ
>>
>> On 4/25/2010 11:32 AM, N4PY2 wrote:
>>> In fact it is driviing the load with 36 watts in your example.
>>>
>>> When the wattmeter shows forward power of 100 watts and reflected
>>> power of
>>> 40 watts into a high swr, because the load is not 50 ohms, the wattmeter
>>> readings are false. Traditional wattmeters are calibrated for 50
>>> ohms. The
>>> wattmeters really only measure voltage and assume the load is 50
>>> ohms. The
>>> 100 watt reading in this case for forward power is not correct
>>> because the
>>> load is not 50 ohms. But it happens to work out that the true power
>>> is the
>>> forward power reading minus the reflected power reading. All the true
>>> power
>>> is delivered to the load minus transmission line loss. Transmission line
>>> loss goes up with SWR.
>>>
>>> Carl Moreschi N4PY
>>> 121 Little Bell Dr
>>> Hays, NC 28635
>>> www.n4py.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rick - NJ0IP / DJ0IP"<Rick at DJ0IP.de>
>>> To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'"<tentec at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 12:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] OMNI VII vs. K3 ? Opinions invited.,
>>>
>>>
>>>> As always Sinisa, you are correct.
>>>> Nice to hear from you again!
>>>>
>>>> The one place I have seen a difference is when trying to tune a linear.
>>>> While varying the power on any Ten-Tec, and tuning the amp, it simply
>>>> varies
>>>> the output power of the amp.
>>>> I've had JA makes that seemed to jump around, like they would suddenly
>>>> reduce power.
>>>> Then I wasn't sure if the input power had dropped or if it was the
>>>> settings
>>>> of the amp causing the change.
>>>>
>>>> In any case I preferred the way the Ten-Tec tuned.
>>>>
>>>> Now something to think about.
>>>> If I run 100w on the Ten-Tec and 40 watts are reflected, then as you
>>>> say,
>>>> the amp or antenna receive 60w.
>>>> If my non TT rig reduces the power to 60w, due to high SWR, it is
>>>> putting
>>>> out 60W but it is only driving the load with about 40w.
>>>> Or is my thinking wrong?
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: tentec-bounces at contesting.com
>>>> [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com]
>>>> On Behalf Of shristov
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:56 AM
>>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] OMNI VII vs. K3 ? Opinions invited.,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rick - NJ0IP / DJ0IP<Rick at DJ0IP.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ... this full power into 3:1 SWR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Rick,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "full power into 3:1 SWR" is just a myth.
>>>> Did you ever read such a claim made by TenTec?
>>>>
>>>> There is nothing inside TenTec transceivers to make them to DELIVER
>>>> full
>>>> power into a mismatched load.
>>>>
>>>> TenTec transceiver do not DELIVER full power into a mismatched load.
>>>> They just fail to reduce the drive with high SWR because they mis
>>>> such a
>>>> circuitry.
>>>> Consequently, the FORWARD power stays the same, at 100 W.
>>>>
>>>> But we must remeber that:
>>>>
>>>> DELIVERED power = FORWARD power - REFLECTED power.
>>>>
>>>> Power meters inside Orion, Omni VII, and virtually all the other rigs
>>>> display FORWARD, not DELIVERED power.
>>>>
>>>> With SWR = 3, we have:
>>>> FORWARD power = 100 W
>>>> REFLECTED power = 25 W
>>>> DELIVERED power = 75 W
>>>>
>>>> Similarly, with SWR = 10, we would have:
>>>> FORWARD power = 100 W
>>>> REFLECTED power = 67 W
>>>> DELIVERED power = 33 W
>>>>
>>>> The only thing that can make PA deliver full power into a mismatched
>>>> load
>>>> is, of couse, a tuner.
>>>> TenTec transceivers are no exception.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> Sinisa YT1NT, VE3EA
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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