[TenTec] High speed washer hum/whine

[Gary Hoffman]

I can confirm that modern devices cannot be UL certified unless they do as 
you say.  And that allows the two hot lead plus ground connection.

Obviously not safe if you have the older appliance.

I don't see where they make any allowance for "grandfathering" in this case. 
But I'll be thousands of dollars its done a lot of the time, unfortunately.

73 de Gary, AA2IZ


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Brown" <ken.d.brown at hawaiiantel.net>
To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] High speed washer hum/whine


> Not so sure about this.
>
> I believe the present NEC allows three wires for 240 VAC service. Two
> hot leads and one ground. There is not neutral run on a modern 240 VAC
> service feed, because it is no longer allowed to run any 120 VAC loads
> inside a 240 VAC operated device by using one hot lead and the neutral.
> Any loads running on less than the full 240 VAC must be derived from the
> full 240 VAC supply, using both hot leads, by using a transformer or
> other method.
>
> Older equipment that uses one of the hot leads and neutral to power a
> 120 VAC load inside a 240 VAC powered device may perhaps be
> "grandfathered", or it may be necessary to run four wires. The shared
> neutral and ground wire is no longer allowed.
>
> Who can check this to get the exact NEC sections?
>
> DE N6KB
>
> Ariel M. Elam wrote:
>> Until a few years ago (or maybe more than a few as I age) National
>> Electrical Code only required a 3 conductor cable to feed a clothes
>> dryer. There were two hot conductors (220 volts for heat) and one
>> combination ground & neutral conductor fastened to the dryer cabinet
>> which in combination with one hot furnished 110 volts to power the drive
>> motor. This has changed and the NEC now requires four conductors - 2
>> hots, 1 neutral, 1 ground. This also applies to electric ranges.
>>
>> Maybe this sheds a little info.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Ariel, K4AAL
>>
>> Jim Brown K9YC wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:27:36 -0600, Stuart Rohre wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The problem may be Variable
>>>> Speed Drives in the appliance, lots of modulated semiconductors
>>>> controlling the motor for "Green" efficiency.  Oh, the laws of
>>>> unintended consequences from the environmentalists!
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Don't blame environmentalists -- it's lousy circuit design.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> There are no guarantees with line filters.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> This doesn't sound like a line filtering issue, but it DOES sound
>>> like possibly improper connections of neutral and the power system
>>> green wire, or a missing power system green wire, of missing bonds
>>> of station ground to the rest of what's grounded. These improper
>>> connections could be in the shack or at the appliance.
>>>
>>> Some things to check. 1) Make sure that the green wire is bonded
>>> to the chassis at the power supplies, AND where the power supply
>>> is plugged into the AC outlet. 2) Make sure that the chassis
>>> (green wire) is NOT connected to the neutral.  3) Make sure that
>>> your power system ground (green wire) is bonded to everything else
>>> in your station, and that every chassis in your station is bonded
>>> together. 4) Make sure that the common point of your station
>>> chassis bonds (grounds) is tied to the ground rods for your
>>> antenna system, your shack, the power system ground rod, and the
>>> ground for Telco and CATV arrestors.
>>>
>>> Look for #1 and #2 at the appliance that is generating the noise.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Jim K9YC
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TenTec mailing list
>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2666 - Release Date: 02/03/10 
>>> 13:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TenTec mailing list
>> TenTec at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TenTec mailing list
> TenTec at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>