[TenTec] OT: Question about TS-590 possible problem

Sun Oct 7 12:45:34 EDT 2012

Question... why doesn't Bob, Rick or someone else post a query about all 
of this on the TS-590 Yahoo group?  There are some technically-oriented 
folks on that group, and I thought that Rick was a member.  Frankly, I'd 
find it hard to believe the TS-590 is a wide-band, or random noise 
generator. If that was the case, it should have never passed the design 
team's and factory QC tests, and FCC approval.

73
Don W9CW

On 10/7/2012 10:52 AM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
> If the noise is broadband then it passes through the bandpass 
> filters.  I've found that notch type filters are typically more 
> selective but more difficult to use.  Thus is the better approach to 
> use bandpass filters or band reject filters? If one plans to use 2 
> radios on the same band and each employees a bandpass filter then the 
> filters are not effective for either radio as the filters pass 
> frequencies within that band, both on transmit and receive.
>
> Ideally the effective use of bandpass filters must have the ability of 
> the filter to select a very narrow frequency range. Thus one filter 
> tuned exclusively for the CW portion and another filter tuned 
> exclusively for the SSB portion of the band.  As one implements 
> filters of higher selectivity the insertion loss, both ways, usually 
> increases.  Usually not a problem on receive as most receivers have 
> more than adequate gain.  However a 3 dB loss on transmit is a lot of 
> power and heat to be dissipated via the filter, not to mention only 
> 1/2 of the power getting to the antenna.  Bummer!  Notch type filters 
> are typically sharper with less insertion loss but require judicious 
> operator involvement.
>
> Choice of radios is very important when one plans to operate two or 
> more radios in close physical proximity and specially on the same 
> band.  Then one must consider antenna location and orientation.  There 
> are many of the current brands and models that will not perform well 
> in "mixed company" although they may be excellent "solo" radios.
>
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP" <Rick at DJ0IP.de>
> To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec at contesting.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 3:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Question about TS-590 possible problem
>
>
>> Guys, I am thankful for every attempt to help, but..
>>
>> THIS IS THE 4TH TIME I HAVE WRITTEN THAT ***THEY ARE ALREADY USING 
>> BANDPASS
>> FILTERS (BPF)***.
>> They are either ICE or Dunestar, I didn't ask them which.
>> They have not tried stubs yet.
>>
>> Besides, even without bandpass filters, good radios do not transmit
>> broadband noise that wipes out all other bands.
>> I was team contesting long before I purchased two complete sets of 
>> dunestar
>> BPFs (15 years ago).
>> We could run 2 or 3 radios (especially Ten-Tecs) out of the same room 
>> with
>> antennas in close proximity of each other and the only interference was
>> harmonic related.
>>
>> We have a lot of experience in team contesting and understand the
>> technologies required there.
>> This is from our own experience, not from reading books.
>>
>> We are simply asking for experience with the TS-590.
>> I'm thinking the TS-590 is a random noise generator!
>> After receiving information I have received (off-reflector) I honestly
>> believe that.
>>
>> In the meantime the boys have organized a K2 and TS-850 and will 
>> repeat the
>> test.
>> Soon we will see if it's the radios.
>>
>> I'll report what we find out.
>>
>> Thanks anyway for all contributions on the topic of 590 and noise
>> generation.
>>
>> 73
>> Rick, DJ0IP
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don 
>> Jones
>> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 4:56 AM
>> To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Question about TS-590 possible problem
>>
>>
>> I am thinking that if these guys who are having trouble were to add a 
>> set of
>> BP filters it would go a long ways towards keeping the front ends of the
>> radios from going into gain compression.
>> Plus if the transmitters are dirty the filters will attenuate noise 
>> on the
>> other bands.
>>
>> I was reading the contesting section of the ON4UN low band DX'ing 
>> book and
>> see that a pair of 1/4 wave stubs separated by a 1/4 wave of coax 
>> makes for
>> a highly effective bandpas filter. If they have 3 spare 1/4 sections of
>> RG213 for 20M they could fabricate a very effective bandpass filter.
>>
>> Bandpass filters are standard fair for SO2R stations - same goes for
>> Multi-two contest stations. Not sure if these guys have considered
>> fabricating a tri-plexer based upon the QST article. I have built two of
>> them and they work great. Sounds like they need a little mentoring 
>> regarding
>> contest band plans and asset allocation for successful contesting. 
>> One note
>> on band plans, 10M and 20M do not play well together. The second 
>> harmonic of
>> 20M will come thru loud and clear on 10M. But then if 10M is open, 
>> 15M will
>> be too. So drop 20 and go to 10. Basically the 15M station stays put 
>> and the
>> 20M station picks up 10M if it opens.
>>
>> So where are they going?
>>
>> 73, Don KO7i
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/5/2012 12:43 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>>> A couple of my friends are preparing for an expedition for CQWW and
>>> are
>> testing their config.
>>> They have 2x TS-590 transceivers and a pair of yagi antennas in close
>> proximity of each other (about 75' apart).
>>>
>>> The problem, they are seeing a broadband noise as soon as they key one
>>> of
>> the transceivers.
>>> Even with just 5w of power it is wiping out the other rig on all bands.
>>>
>>> My old grey cells seem to remember we discussed this here on the
>>> Ten-Tec
>> reflector about 6 months ago or so.
>>> Does anyone remember the details of this or do I have my wires totally
>> crossed?
>>> Was there a fix or have I dreamt this up?
>>>
>>> TNX guys, and sorry to spam the group, but if we can get these guys
>>> fixed,
>> we'll have a nice multiplier in CQWW.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Rick, DJ0IP
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TenTec mailing list
>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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