[TenTec] OT: Question about TS-590 possible problem

[Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP]

-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richards
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 4:03 PM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Question about TS-590 possible problem



On 10/7/2012 1:10 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
    I told them flat out it's their radios and swap them
> before wasting any brain cycles on other causes of the problem.

		That does not sound like good advice.

You obviously have no previous experience with EXACTLY this same problem.
I have lots of experience with it and it was ALWAYS the radio.
The problem began when the first low cost radios with PLL hit the market,
back in about 1989.

		Without more than your "memory" of
		a possible problem you sorta, but not
		really recall...  that is a pretty draconian
		solution for what might be a simple
		problem.

They are always simple problems after you find the answer.
I think it is a simple problem.  It is the TS-590 here.
VERY EASY WAY TO FIND OUT.   Just bring in one known good radio.  They will
do that.

		You are just fishing for ideas, and have
		no way to verify your hunch, being so
		far detached from the field detail.

You have no idea of what you are talking about here.
I have already invested about 5 hours of research and have exchanged emails
with about 8 people on this problem who have direct experience with this.
Some had no problems and some had exactly this same problem.
Why do you say "fishing for ideas" when I know that this kind of problem is
specifically caused by noisy PLL or DDS circuitry in radios?  I mean, you
can't know whether I know that or not and obviously you've never seen the
problem before, but I've seen it many times, especially in the old days when
PLLs first came out.  We learned not to buy cheap rigs for team contesting.
We also learned to test the config before going on the trip, which is what
these guys did. The found a problem and thought it might be in the antenna.
Not impossible, but before I pull two beams down off the tower, I try a few
things inside the shack first.

		I know lots of guys who use those radios
		in close proximity w=with other radios in
		- for contesting, etc. - with no problems
		like your friends are reporting.

Yes, in the meantime I do too, but I also know 3 guys with exactly this
problem.
In the other two cases it was the TS-590.  PROVEN.  
I will bet a dollar against a doughnut hole that it is this problem again.

These may all very well be broken Kenwoods.  If so, somebody (not you or me)
needs to find out what's going on.
		

> I have seen this problem about 20 years ago when we were setting up a 
> multi-multi station (12 transmitters - 6 simultaneously) and we found 
> out that a lot of radios are no good for this.  We used to have a list 
> of bad radios that we simply did not bother to take along to the team 
> contesting events.  It looks like the 590 will go onto that old list as
well.


		I appears to me, you are leaping to
		conclusions with very	little hard data.

I didn't see it once.  I saw it again and again and again as inexperienced
operators brought their cheap PLL rigs to a team contest.

		You may be right... but I don't think you can
		prove it on the data presented here.
We agree this point.  That's why I got more data, off reflector.  For some
reason the guy we both know did not want to post it onto the reflector, so I
can't say who it is, but I'm sure he is someone you will agree is
knowledgeable.
		
		WE HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS WITH OUR
		TEN-TEC AND ELECRAFT RADIOS... BUT
		YOU DID NOT SEEM TO THINK THE RADIOS
		WERE AT FAULT THEN...  

Not guilty!  I did not voice an opinion in that discussion.
I did not even post a comment.
I would have to learn more about exactly what the problem was, I would have
questions, and if the setup is no longer there, we might not get the answers
I need to determine what's going on.

and did not
		suggest we get new radios... even though
		you had no better solution than band pass
		filters.   I guess on the same argument, we
		should be selling all our TT gear because
		they make noise in the Elecraft ears...

I don't think it was me who said bandpass filters.  Maybe it was.  Depends
on what the problem was.  If it is broadband noise, bandpass filters don't
help.

		No... I think the Jury is still out on this
		problem.
AGREE again.

Gotta run.  I am starting a course in Italian tonight.

Cheers!
Rick

---------------------------- K8JHR  ------------------------



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