[TenTec] Explanations of the Different Types of Filtering on Radios

Fri Aug 30 17:08:30 EDT 2013

Well lets see...

The first image that came to mind for SAF was a pin hole camera...

Have you ever poked a pin hole in a piece of thin cardboard and used it to project an image of the sun on another piece of paper held a few feet below the cardboard during an eclipse of the sun...

That’s a CW signal using SAF.  It’s hard on your hearing running the volume up at high levels, AGC off and riding the RF Gain to try to pull out a weak signal right at the noise but SAF will peak that tiny signal up just enough to allow a clear image of it to be copied.

AGC well that’s a bit more difficult.  Best I could come up with for that was the apparent tendency of gasoline pricing...you get a quick attack time on the least bit of news that makes the market nervous but a slow decay on news of stability or reduction in demand....it all seems to be tuned to keep the price hovering around $3.50-$4.00 per gallon.   Exception with our radios is that we have  control of the attack and decay times as it relates to the RF Gain..

Yea I know...I ain’t right...but hey you asked...😊

Cecil Acuff
Gulfport MS
K5DL

From: Richards
Sent: ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2013 ‎1‎:‎25‎ ‎PM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Explanations of the Different Types of Filtering on Radios

Yeah... great analogy.

I would explain DSP noise filtering with your analogy like this:

 You got the lady at end end of the tunnel, but
 she is shrouded in a misty fog, like you get
 in those same smokey mountains.   So, the DSP
 is like squinting your eyes, so that you sorta
 see her more clearly, and you don't notice the
 foggy mist as much.

Now... Cecil... would you ALSO describe, in your own quaint manner, how 
the SAF and AGC work on the Orion II, as I could use a similar 
clarification, in regular guy language, on those features!

----------------  K8JHR  --------------------

On 8/30/2013 12:43 PM, DAVE wrote:
> Great analogy Cecil.

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> Thanks
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> Dave, KB9EPL
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> ----- Original Message -----
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>
> From: chacuff at cableone.net
> To: "Will Jones" <wjones at bellsouth.net>, "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec at contesting.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 10:46:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Explanations of the Different Types of Filtering on Radios
>
> Ok, here goes with an analogy...
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> I’ve been up in the Smokey Mountains many times and they have some of these beautiful short tunnels through rocky hillsides for the roads to pass.
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> Lets say you were standing in the middle of the road at one end of one of these short, straight tunnels looking through to the other side.  At the other end of the tunnel you see a very nice looking young lady just to the left of center and a really ugly old lady just to the right.  Of course the desirable view at this point is the nice looking young lady but it’s really difficult to get a good look because of the really ugly lady...so.  Say you had a knob that would allow you to move the end of the tunnel left or right just enough to block out the view of the really ugly lady leaving only the view of the very nice looking young lady...there you have IF Shift....also called PBT by other manufacturers.
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>
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> Now re-center the knob where you have both ladies in view.  Hold up the index finger of your right hand out at arms length.  Close one eye and place that finger over the really ugly lady blocking the view of her and leaving only the view of the nice looking younger lady...there you have the Notch Filter.  It may not cover the whole view of the ugly lady but it does enough to allow a better view of the nice looking young lady.
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> The others are a bit more difficult to explain...
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> RIT is really not a filter at all...just another way to tune the frequency of the receiver a small amount without changing your transmitter frequency. Say you are having a short SSB QSO after calling CQ with a fellow who doesn’t seem to be tuned properly to your frequency and he sounds like he has been snorting helium so you need to tune your VFO to make him sound more natural.  If you tune your main VFO you are not only tuning your receiver but also your transmitter...which will result in a change in how you sound in his receiver.  Well on the next over he may retune his VFO to make you sound normal in his speaker and it’s an endless chase up and down the band. (this can be caused by radio alignment issues)  Better choice would be to engage RIT and just move your receiver until he sounds natural to you which will not change your transmit frequency only your receiver frequency leaving you sounding the same in his receiver and less likely causing him to retune...ending the chas
e.
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> DSP Noise reduction...well this being a software feature is implemented differently in every manufacturers radios and sometimes even between models in the same manufacturers radios.
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> The goal of all is to reduce random noise as much as possible while identifying the desirable young lady...um...signal and bringing it out of the noise.  All this is done using math inside the computer.  Some work better than others.  The Icom system works well at reducing background noise without adding too much digital artifact noise as long as you don’t over use it.  Seems some think if a little is good then a lot is better...it’s a balance.  Turning the knob full clockwise will result in digital noise and not help at all.  The DSP system on my Orion II is different and I’m not sure exactly how to explain it..except the way Ten-Tec does that advancing to a higher number increases the length of time sampling is done before the digital filter is built.  Which results in a better built filter in software but it takes longer to get there.  Of course the desirable signal needs to be there for the duration of the sample or it probably will have a hard time doing it’s job.  No
ne of them are magic...and most work well some times and not so well others...it’s just another tool.
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> Noise Blankers.  Most are designed to work on repetitive noise pulses like old auto ignition system noise or electric fence pulses.  Some works well on power line noise some not so much.  I’m surprised sometimes at how well some work and how poorly others don’t...and it doesn’t seem to matter how much the radio cost.  Some of the older cheap radios noise blankers do wonders on power line noise and a high dollar radio won’t touch it...go figure.  Won’t do much on atmospheric static crashes because they don’t happen on a timed repetitive timeline which noise blankers are designed to sense.
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> Well that’s about all I got...my apologies to any of the ladies out there with my analogy...it was the first vision that popped into my head this morning when envisioning an answer to the question.  No harm intended...
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> I’m sure others will have more insightful answers and between the group of us we should answer your questions.
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> Best of the Labor Day weekend....
>
>
>
> Cecil Acuff
> Gulfport MS
> K5DL
>
>
> From: Will Jones
> Sent: ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2013 ‎9‎:‎33‎ ‎AM
> To: tentec at contesting.com
> Subject: [TenTec] Explanations of the Different Types of Filtering on Radios
>
>
> There are a few of us who meet together every Wed. morning at a local restaurant to talk about ham radio and stuff.
> Some are new hams. One asked this week a question which I think would be an interesting study in comments.
> He asked, "I have an I.F. shift on my radio and I have read about what it does but don't really understand "what" it does. Also how does it compare to the other features I see on radios such as PBT, notch filters, RIT, DSP noise reduction and noise blankers. Without having a radio with these features on them it is hard to explain just what your signal will sound like when these devices are used.
> So can anyone give us some ideas how to explain these different types and why we would want one and not another and why radios don't have them all on one radio.
> Bill, N4LB in TN
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