[TenTec] Antenna is up, but the coupler doesn't like 160 meters

Tue Oct 15 18:43:15 EDT 2013

Good choices.

I'm still saying that an adjustment in feed line length is necessary. Add 
some 10 ft and see what improves.

Also try the internal balun.  You might find it works OK.

73
Bob, K4TAX

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Bryce" <prosolar at sssnet.com>
To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec at contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Antenna is up, but the coupler doesn't like 160 meters

> bob,
>
> since the antenna is inverted vee style, the feedline slopes away from the 
> tower.
>
> and yes,  5kw current 1:1 balun at the end feed into the 238 tuner.
>
>
>
> Mike Bryce, WB8VGE
> the heathkit shop
> SunLight energy systems
> J e e p
> o|||||||o
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 14, 2013, at 10:58 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
>
>> Diddling a bit more, the feed point Z of the antenna is projected to be 
>> around 20 to 25 ohms.  The feed line is about 3/8 wavelength or about 135 
>> degrees.  I see nothing wrong with these values that might point to an 
>> issue.
>>
>> I will presume the feedline is brought away from the antenna at near 90 
>> degrees and is not running parallel with the antenna.  This could create 
>> a problem should he feedline be basically parallel with the antenna.
>>
>> Hopefully you are using a 1:1 current balun and not a 4:1 current or 
>> voltage balun.  If you are using a 4:1 balun, I suggest turning it around 
>> in the circuit such that it is operating as a 1:4 balun.  If you are 
>> using the configuration as a 4:1 balun, with a Z on the output side at 
>> some 20 ohms, then tuner is seeing something like 5 ohms.  Thus finding 
>> the Z to be outside of the matching range of the tuner.
>>
>> Just a few thoughts and ramblings.
>>
>> 73
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob McGraw - K4TAX" 
>> <RMcGraw at Blomand.net>
>> To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 7:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Antenna is up, but the coupler doesn't like 160 
>> meters
>>
>>
>>> Based on these numbers, the antenna should show resonance at about 1.8 
>>> MHz and the feedline should show resonance at about 2.75 MHz.  Let me 
>>> emphasize that these are resonance numbers are not anyway related to SWR 
>>> values.  With an instrument such as the MFJ 259 analyzer being operated 
>>> as a dip meter, you should see a dip at or close to these two 
>>> frequencies. Again, disregard any SWR value at this point as it is a 
>>> ratio of impedance and has nothing to do with resonant frequency.
>>>
>>> If you are using something like a Tentec 238 or 239 tuner, connect the 
>>> 600 ohm line direct to the tuner terminals and be sure to have the 
>>> jumper in place from Single Wire terminal to one terminal of the Balance 
>>> Line terminals.  Also for 160M you will likely need the 1000 pF cap from 
>>> the External Cap terminal to ground.  Especially true of the lower 
>>> SWR/match takes place with the impedance switch on the low side.  This 
>>> is a true trial-and-error determination.  I've found that 160M antennas 
>>> are more problematic in terms of attaining a match than most any other 
>>> band.
>>>
>>> If you have several tuners that will not match the load, then the likely 
>>> choice is to change the length of the feedline some + or - 10 ft.
>>>
>>> Procedurally with the 239 tuner, set the inductance to maximum value and 
>>> the capacitor value to #2. Then switch between the Lo Z #1  and Hi Z #1 
>>> positions noting which shows the lower SWR.  Alternate adjust the 
>>> Capacitor and inductor for the lowest reading. Should the capacitor be 
>>> maxed out then switch to the next value.
>>>
>>> I do recall that some tuners have a reversed notation in that a 
>>> capacitor value of 0 is maximum C while on others a value of 0 is 
>>> minimum C. Personally, I looked inside the box to see where maximum C 
>>> occurs and maximum L occurs with regard to the scaling and made notes 
>>> accordingly.
>>>
>>> In my case for 160M and the internal balun, the Z switch required 
>>> selected values of 3, 4, or 5 depending on frequency while the L value 
>>> is about 20 to 24 on the 0 - 30 number scale.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bryce" <prosolar at sssnet.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 4:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Antenna is up, but the coupler doesn't like 160 
>>> meters
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jim,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The antenna is a doublet up 50 feet inverted vee style.
>>>>
>>>> It is feed with about 170 ish feet of 600 ohm open line.
>>>>
>>>> None of the couplers can find a tuning solution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All other bands work fine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad at Aultman hospital.
>>>>
>>>> Mike wb8vge
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Jim GM <jim.gmforum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike, WB8VGE
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope your surgery goes well for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have gone and still going thru issues with my inverted L on 160M 
>>>>> like
>>>>>
>>>>> your having.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How long is your antenna?  Is it a dipole or Folded dipole?  I did not
>>>>> see on your post the answers to these questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How high do you have it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your going to find or have found that the tuner you have and other
>>>>> tuners will not work on 160M. They just cannot handle a near 50 ohm
>>>>> match or less no matter what they claim. All they want is your money.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you need to add additional matching out side the shack with coils
>>>>> and homemade capacitors made from coax cable, thats if you have a
>>>>> limited junk box like I do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ways the external matching will aid your tuner in the shack to 
>>>>> take
>>>>> care of the rest.
>>>>>
>>>>> It will take some time and it is not a quick fix.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Jim K9TF
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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