[TenTec] Varied Wishes and ramblings

Wed Apr 9 08:10:13 EDT 2014

Rick et al,

>From my days buying and installing hundreds of mid sized electronic Private 
Business Exchanges or PBX (telephone systems) across the United States (and 
a few in Canada) for a major US based insurance group; we found that a while 
these systems had 256 feature options with one to sixteen choices in each, 
most users (80%) never got beyond a dozen features used, ten percent used 
less than six features (Plain Old Telephone) and ten percent used perhaps 
two dozen features.

But much of those feature used percentages were skewed by the user 
interface; give the user a plain vanilla phone, where * or # and two digits 
were required to activate or turn off a feature and the feature use went 
down. Give the user a electronic phone where the user programmed all the 
features and usage went down. Give the user a custom programmed phone (for 
their job) with a few soft keys that they use and feature use went up.

We have some the of same issues here with this discussion , we each have 
different wants and needs depending on how we use our radios. I was never in 
the market for the Orion or Orion II.  It may be a great radio but it has 
too many feature settings for me. I've grown accustomed to WYSIWYG in the 
OMNI-C Digital, CORSAIR-II, Paragon, OMNI-VI+, and OMNI-VII (which I can 
option the sub-RX for either the CORSAIR-II or FLEX-1500).  I have a good 
friend and neighbor who I encouraged to buy an ORION II, he really likes it, 
but his experiences confirmed the Orion was not for me, no I'm NOT 
interested thank you.

Give me a two receiver version of the OMNI-VII or true dual receive with a 
matching outboard receiver module (think external VFO of the CORSAIR II) IF 
and I/Q outputs and I'm ready to buy.

73 & DX,
Gary - AB9M
-----Original Message----- 
From: Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 5:14 AM
To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Varied Wishes and ramblings

Barry,

For me it is a matter of costs.  That's why my first suggestion was to make
it modular.
Unless the remote control is doable for pennies (figuratively speaking),
then it should be an option, not a must.
I believe 98% of the high end radios will never be remoted.

Here elecraft is kinda on the right track.
They have something called a K3-Zero (or something like that), which is
basically a skeleton of a K3 with the full front panel but very little
electronics inside.  It stays with the Operator, while a full K3 is placed
somewhere remote.
IMO, the box that is remote doesn't need all that extra stuff on it. It can
be a black box.

In operation, the OP using the K3-0 doesn't notice any difference between
using that setup or a real K3.

I think this is one area where far too many of us (including me) have too
little experience to be defining the requirements.  My worry is additional
cost for bells and whistles that only 1 or 2% of the users need.

Down the road, maybe everybody will be using the same standard POD,
regardless of what radio is behind it.
Hardware will be interchangeable and the real value is in the software.

I don't expect I'll be around then and I don't really dream about that
stuff.
All I want are some sunspots and the radio I already have!
(And a QTH where I could put my Spiderbeam up). ;-)

73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)

-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Barry N1EU
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 11:38 AM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Varied Wishes and ramblings

Rick, I actually read Ron's suggestion differently, perhaps because of my
own wants/needs.  I see it as a #1 full size radio with lots of knobs with
the capability of remote control via an accessory remote head.

We need a Universal remote control (remote head) that could be remotely
interfaced to a variety of radios/SDR's and used locally or remotely via
internet.

73, Barry N1EU

On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 5:08 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP <Rick at dj0ip.de> wrote:

> I disagree with Ron - but only on execution.
>
> Perhaps there should be two versions of the rig - like with the TS-2000.
> One has a front panel, the other does not.
>
> Why does a remote rig need a big front panel, big wide-spaced knobs,
> big S-Meter, etc., etc.?
>
> A "One-Size-Fits-All" rig will always be a compromise.
> And, if we put all features into all rigs, many of us won't be able to
> afford anything.
>
> Ten-Tec 'had' a great portfolio with good distinction between models:
>
> 1). ORION - Top of the line, max features, BIG SIZE, for home use 2).
> OMNI-VII - Good mid-range radio (best in class, BTW); which could also
> be easily remoted 3). EAGLE - a naked Ferrari at an affordable price,
> missing bells and whistles that 70% of the hams will never use.
>
> IMO Ten-Tec did a great job of figuring the market out and delivering
> to its needs.
> WELL DONE, TEN-TEC!
>
> We are currently 'ONLY' brain-storming a replacement for #1.
> No. 1 is radio where 95% of its owners will have it on the desk in
> front of them and use it as their main rig.
>
> I think we need what Ron is asking for, but it should maybe be called
> a
> #1.5
> - be the O3 without a front panel.
> It could probably be in a smaller box.   Call it O3-BB (black box).
>
> Why pay for all the knobs and such if you won't be using them?
>
> Hats off to Kenwood for coming up with the idea almost 20 years ago!
>
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ron
> Castro
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 5:33 AM
> To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Varied Wishes and ramblings
>
> Lots of great suggestions, but one I would like to pitch for in any
> new rig or as a "stand alone" to be added to existing radios would be
> remote control.  Certainly the Omni VII has that built in, and you can
> cobble together something using the RemoteRig hardware and remote
> desktop, but having either a plug n' play hardware control head with
> built in CODEC's and internet connection would be great.  A simple
> flexible control system like the T-Mate2 with audio and Ethernet would
> be ground-breaking. Add in modular rotator control, amplifier control,
> etc. and you have a winner!
>
> With hams growing older and broadband access being more ubiquitous,
> remote operations are now the fastest growing sector of ham radio
> today.  There were numerous discussions about remotes at the Visalia
> DX convention this past weekend.
>
>           Ron Castro
>            N6IE
>     www.N6IE.com
>
> Member:
>                       ARRL
>      Redwood Empire DX Assn.
>  Northern California Contest Club
> Northern California DX Foundation
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of John
> Henry
> Sent: April 8, 2014 8:02 PM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: [TenTec] Varied Wishes and ramblings
>
> I hope everyone can see just from these last two threads, that there
> is a huge variation in what hams expect of their rigs. If I look at
> this from the outside, looking at TEN-TEC, and what TEN-TEC has made
> through the years, I believe that TEN-TEC has done a great job in
> giving the consumers what they want, mostly.
> Look at the Orion series of rigs. Fantastic performance for
> contesting, great features on the front panel, a sweep that works
> fairly good, but of course limited by size and other constraints, and
> so many things to so many different hams that wanted x and another
> didn't want x but wanted y instead, well, mostly, it was there on the
> Orion. The antenna matrix, fantastic, the band data outputs, serial
> control of a lot of the functions for the PC hounds and the interfaces
> for the same PC hounds with their SDR's doing "fantastical" PC
> sweeps/waterfalls/skimming/coffee making. It's there. For the audio
> enthusiast, binaural, spatial, agc tailoring, ground breaking stuff
> years ago, that still most don't really comprehend and well, why does
> everyone have to? they don't, just use it stock, and it outperforms
> just about anything on the market in just about any condition.
> The OMNI-VII, only things it's really missing is a second receiver and
> a functional sweep (plus a few tricks we have up our sleeves in store
> for it).
> Of course, some would not consider an OMNI-VII because of something it
> lacks that the Orion has, or vice versa. Or the competitor rig y has
> the feature required.  Maybe it is missing band data outputs, antenna
> matrix, two main VFOs, etc., but, it is a stellar performer, demo's
> with the Ethernet are going fantastic from new hams trying out the rig
> in the TEN-TEC sales shack getting audio reports of great audio. Yes,
> I'm still beta testing one baby step at a time on a new Ethernet set
> of code, will be out...xxxx Yes, some issues, with all the rigs, but,
> well, all in all, the rigs have done great, and will continue to do
> great.
>
> Just look at the differences "REQUIRED" of the one feature, the sweep.
> Some could care less and want us to quit working on it for the 588 and
> will never fire it up for the 566. Yet some REALLY NEED it to work on
> the 588.
> So, as someone mentioned earlier, that means we need to design
> interfaces in the hardware for optional add-ons. Not an issue, because
> if I start with a bare OMNI-VII, almost all of those interfaces
> already exist (talking about interfaces to additional hardware
> options, not GUI's). Same for the Eagle, same for the Orion(s).
>
> As I read some people's inputs, the Eagle has EVERYTHING they will
> ever need. Why? Because it is an absolute top notch performer in
> receiver quality and sound. For some, it has an absolutely easy to use
> easy to access feature set that covers every requirement they need.
> Some use it connected to a PC for getting the things they want out of
> it.
> As I read some peoples inputs, the Eagle needs so much more to make it
> the ultimate rig, well, those are good thoughts, good wishes.
>
> Same for the OMNI-VII.
>
> With all of the above, the variances in customer wishes, required
> features, etc., we try to design something that can do all for the
> ultimate configuration users like the super serious PC driving
> contesters/dxers/etc.ers, at the same time of hitting the requirements
> of the front panel only user who wants to dominate the same contests,
> at the same time of hitting the requirements of a rag chewer who gets
> on from time to time and wants to drive it from the PC or the front
> panel or a combination of both.
>
> When these threads started, my inbox must have had an increase of
> about
> 50-100 more emails a day, just on the wishes for an Orion III and it's
> "required" features. That also lead to requests for the sweep for the
> OMNI-VII, Vox for the Argonaut VI, etc., etc.
> It just takes time to get those things out.
> Doing what we can.
> No, I'm not complaining, don't take this post this way, I do really
> appreciate the inputs, it helps confirm the direction we are going,
> and also brings to light things we had forgotten that others thought
> were really important, that in our way of operating or thinking, well,
> they weren't thought of as needed, so we can rethink them again, and
> why.
> heck, even inside TEN-TEC there is a great disparity on some features,
> what is included, why, who would ever use this, etc.
> Somewhere, in the end, we hope to find the happy middle ground, medium.
>
> Now, sometimes, we will make things that people have no idea why, e.g.
> the
> 506 is one of them. I have had MANY emails and calls about that was
> the worst way and thing TEN-TEC could ever have made, not an Orion or
> Eagle or even a traditional Corsair or Tritan... well, true, but, it
> helps others get into the hobby, brings joy back to hams that had
> gotten out of the hobby because they were disheartened, and the 506
> brought them back, and they are having fun again.
>
> Of course, when threads like this occur, I do get emails from hams
> saying they will wait on their purchase now for the hope of the
> ultimate x transceiver. Well, my input to that is... Why wait, I mean,
> you have the opportunity now, the rig you are looking at really does
> fit your requirements today, and besides, you may get hit by a bus in
> a month and would not have enjoyed the rig. TEN-TEC could get hit by a
> bus itself, and the future ultimate x transceiver won't see the light
> of day and you would have missed out on the rig we have now. Go ahead
> and get that OMNI-VII, or get that Eagle, or Argonaut VI, or 506, you
> can always trade it in next year or the year after for the ultimate x
> transceiver, if/when it comes out.
> Heck, if everyone waits for the next big TEN-TEC rig, there won't be a
> "next big TEN-TEC rig" because everyone waiting will tank the company
> due to lack of sales.
> I know a lot that have waited on buying their next transceiver,
> waiting for the new ultimate xxx that is now on the market, well, it
> ain't filling their bill, ain't performing near what their other two
> rigs were that they traded in to be able to afford it. ain't living up
> to expectations, etc.
> etc. No, this isn't a knock on a specific one, but sometimes the
> kool-aid makes one think it is best to get the one thing, when what
> they had in the TEN-TEC rigs did actually fulfill all they needed.
> So, go get your OMNI-VII now, ....
>
> 'nuff said, time for me to get some shut eye
>
> Thanks, and 73,
> John Henry, KI4JPL
> TEN-TEC Engineering
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