[TenTec] How much for an Orion III?

Mon Apr 14 20:35:17 EDT 2014

OK, and thank you for your service, but your question made me wonder.  I
rarely saw any logic in decisions made while I served!  :-)  My buddy in
tech school grew up in a USAF family, and he and his Dad watched them dig a
big hole and bury tools in Germany when they shut down a base there.  I
guess someone tought it was cheaper than trying to disposition them out
somewhere else . . .  

	73, Duane

Duane Calvin, AC5AA
Austin, Texas
www.ac5aa.com  

-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Vohland
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 6:48 PM
To: ac5aa at ac5aa.com; Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?

Actually Duane if you were referring to me I did 20 years in Navy as a
crypto tech. Surprise.

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 14, 2014, at 7:34 PM, "Duane Calvin" <ac5aa1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> You obviously were never in the military!  :-)
> 
>    73, Duane
> 
> Duane Calvin, AC5AA
> Austin, Texas
> www.ac5aa.com  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Vohland
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 4:33 PM
> To: tentec at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
> 
> I'm not sure that I understand the story of destroying the equipment based
> on having received "classified signals".  There is no way a kwm-2/2a or
> s-line could have encrypted or decrypted signals. They were
> receivers/transmitters, not cryptographic. In the navy, any classified
radio
> equipment had manuals which stressed exactly which circuit boards were
> classified and requirement destruction in a specific manner. Unclassified
> portions of the equipment required no special effort. a vacuum tube
doesn't
> retain signals. Stories of R390's languishing abound also. Probably due
more
> to a glut of old equipment. SP600's, R390s, R1051 and even some ten-tec
> receivers were used for intercept operations. Many made it to
> civilian/unclassified use. No security issues. 
> 
>> From: wn3vaw at verizon.net
>> To: tentec at contesting.com
>> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 17:19:28 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>> 
>> Well, the story of the stupid destruction of those KWM-2/2A's and S-Lines
> is
>> an old story.  Sad to say, while there are variations on the theme, it's
a
>> common story from almost any US military installation, regardless of the
>> branch, that was decommissioning the units at the time.
>> 
>> In essence, someone high enough up simply didn't want to "take any
> chances"
>> about ANY electronics that MIGHT have been used to encrypt/decrypt secure
>> communications.  So, he or she ordered that they take the benefit of the
>> doubt... and destroy EVERYTHING.  Which included all of that Collins
gear,
>> and more.
>> 
>> That's one of the reasons, I have been told, that the flood of MilSurplus
>> equipment that used to flood the Amateur market has dried up.
>> 
>> Now, the good news is, a good bit (though not nearly enough!) of that
gear
>> was... intercepted before destruction, and ended up in MARS stations, or
>> MilRec stations, or even, eventually, in private hands (I don't want to
> know
>> how!!)  
>> 
>> Still, it's a real shame.
>> 
>> Could you imagine, though, what the Amateur used equipment market would
> have
>> been like if a flood of MilSurplus KWM-2's had suddenly become available?
> 
>> 
>> Oh well.  So it goes.
>> 
>> 73, ron w3wn
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of k6jek
>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 4:11 PM
>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>> 
>> I would have had nightmares for years if I'd witnessed that. I may have
> them
>> anyway just hearing about it.
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 14, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>> 
>>> Sure there was... Government stupidity and its insistence on wasting tax
>>> payers' money!
>>> 
>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of James
>>> Duffer
>>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:17 PM
>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>> 
>>> Such a sad tale.  Sorry to hear of such destruction of good and harmless
>>> equipment.  Harmless as there was no "just" reason for the destruction.
>>> Jim, wd4air
>>> 
>>>> From: Rick at DJ0IP.de
>>>> To: tentec at contesting.com
>>>> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 20:09:03 +0200
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>> 
>>>> I can answer some of that, first hand.
>>>> 
>>>> In about 1973, the US Army in Europe (USAREUR) decided to close down 
>>>> hf and go fully to VHF and UHF.
>>>> Hundreds of S-Lines and KWM-2A's were collected and brought to the 
>>>> army disposal center in south western Germany.
>>>> 
>>>> I was custodian of a MARS station in Berlin and on TDY in the area of 
>>>> the disposal center, so I dropped in to see if I could scrounge 
>>>> anything to distribute through the MARS channels to our members.  
>>>> There I witnessed the beautiful Collins radios stacked by the hundreds,
>> in
>>> an area of about 50 ft.
>>>> by 75 ft - being destroyed!
>>>> 
>>>> There were a few guys working hard destroying them.  Every tube was 
>>>> being broken with a hammer and the chassis of each was cut in half with
> a
>>> torch.
>>>> 
>>>> Seems they had been used by the Army Security Agency and they were 
>>>> afraid there might be some residual top secret data still inside some
> of
>>> the tube.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I did everything I could to try and stop the action but to no avail.
>>>> Everyone on site was just following orders and they were not willing 
>>>> to pause while I tried to find a solution.  All of the radios were all 
>>>> completely destroyed.
>>>> 
>>>> I was in tears.  I could have made every MARS member in Germany's 
>>>> dream come true if some moron hadn't have taken the decision to destroy
>>> them.
>>>> 
>>>> So that's what happened to our military S-Lines here in Europe. 
>>>> 
>>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Dave 
>>>> Edwards
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 6:16 PM
>>>> To: tentec at contesting.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>> 
>>>> Also interesting (to think about)...
>>>> I wonder what percentage of them still exist today?
>>>> 
>>>> How many does the government still own?
>>>> 
>>>> How many remain on dusty shelves somewhere....unopened???
>>>> 
>>>> ....Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/14/14, 9:56 AM, Rsoifer at aol.com wrote:
>>>>> I asked Rod, K0DAS (retired from Rockwell Collins), how many  KWM-2s 
>>>>> were bought by hams rather than Uncle Sam.  He said that nobody 
>>>>> really knows, but his best guess is that the U.S. armed forces 
>>>>> bought between  1/4 and 1/3 of them.  Some went to other government 
>>>>> agencies as well  as foreign governments.  That still leaves quite a 
>>>>> few that were
>>>> bought by  hams like me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 73 Ray W2RS
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>>> 
>>>> 
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