[TenTec] New Jupiter on its Way _ A Few Questions

Lee ny6p01 at gmail.com
Fri Apr 25 18:24:04 EDT 2014


Thank you for that informative exposition on magnetic loops, Stuart. It's
kind of daunting though, with all the caveats as to smoothness of the
joints, conductivity, etc. to someo.e who sets out to build it himself.
Perhaps I'd be better off just using it as a receiving antenna. I expect
the specifications are not as strict for that purpose.
On Apr 25, 2014 2:39 PM, "Stuart Rohre" <rohre at arlut.utexas.edu> wrote:

> Rick,
> Thanks for augmenting my post with some important caveats.
>
> YES!, you have to have a room sized to not have the indoor loop too close
> to the walls and possible conductors.
>
> I was testing a loop made at our research lab in San Antonio one time,
> indoors.  It was just a quick test, not at full voltage, to see what the
> wave form would be from a pulse source dumping into the one turn copper
> tubing loop from a charged capacitor bank.
>
> We were simulating lightning to do near field testing of some sensitive
> amplifiers to be used outdoors.
>
> Although my loop set up was horizontal on some insulating stands and one
> foot from a metal shelf, and that seemed a safe distance for the planned
> "one shot"; when I fired the charged capacitor bank into the loop, I got
> "lightning".  A one foot arc to the painted, and insulated metal cabinet,
> (or at least we thought it was insulated up to that point.) (The things you
> do as a junior scientist).
>
> We took the loop and instruments outdoors for waveform testing after that.
>  It simulated the magnetic field of a lightning pulse quite well for our
> purposes.  It fired at any charging voltage without doing anything unusual,
> except the expected jump, against its supports, from the transient high
> field being discharged.
>
> Oh, the reason it arced?  The machine shop who rolled the tubing into a
> loop for us, had one spot with a non smooth curve, and it formed a high
> voltage peak at that discontinuity. It was such a minor imperfection it had
> gone un-noticed until it called attention to itself.
>
> As Rick points out, outdoors, even just outside at roof line, you get
> dramatically better results from a loop.  And, the loop can be made larger
> (and more efficient) over an indoor model limited by room size and
> contents.  Don't overlook estimating the field before you stay close to a
> loop.
>
> The highest quality low resistance joints dictate silver soldering, or
> brazing anything that connects to the tubing, if you can't weld it. Other
> mechanical methods that might work, are to polish the flattened surfaces to
> be joined, then introduce conductive grease to protect the bolt joint from
> oxidation and maintain the connection.  Tubing to be bolted should use
> highly conductive washers on the bolt, to distribute a high loading to the
> joint, and dissipate any heat build up.  Use of capacitors where the
> current does not have to flow thru a rotor shaft is preferred.  You can get
> two big variables twice the capacitance needed, and put them in series so
> that the current only travels via the field thru both rotors, and no
> mechanical rotating connection is a current path.
>
> WB5AOH used a U shaped tubing "rotor" in his trombone capacitor, so that
> the field was between the air gap between the U and the two tubes that
> formed the stator.  Teflon rings provided a lubricated sliding joint, and
> spacers between the tubes.  He had a group of paralled capacitors that
> could be switched into use for 80m.
>
> Coupling to the loop can be by the use of a small loop at one side of the
> transmit/ receive loop.
>
> As Rick said, for low bands 80 and 40, a two turn or more loop allows the
> band to be driven more efficiently.  (Smaller loop diamter).
>
> I have been doing research on WW2 NVIS early use, and loops were sometimes
> used horizontally one meter above the roof of a Scout car.
>
> There was also a meander line dipole used one meter off a car roof, as
> well as other designs that seemed to emulate an isotropic source, as that
> radiator was a random structure, not resonant, and single wire fed from a
> larger transmitter, truck mounted.
>
> W5IFQ, another researcher here, uses the early MFJ multi band loop to
> maintain ham radio links when he is on research in distant oceans.  He is
> able to maintain email schedules with home by the use of a loop placed
> above the superstructure of the ships, which typically are 200 feet long or
> less.
>
> -Stuart Rohre
> K5KVH
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