[TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

Rick et al;

Your comments are very appropriate.   Yes, merge my comments and 
observations with yours.

Last evening with the two radios sitting in front of me, I quickly created 
the list.  There is a lot more that could have been added.   From my take, 
numbers are numbers, and the real proof of the pie is actual on the air 
usage in a given location and specific circumstances.  In many cases today 
one will actually need two or more radios on the desk to make a real and 
valid evaluation.   To this end, the Tentec 30 day trial period does exactly 
this and this is something no other company provides.

Rob has done an outstanding job of measuring and presenting results of many 
receiver brands and models.  He is to be highly commended for his excellent 
work.  I do caution, those looking to his Receiver Test Data, should 
understand exactly what is being presented.  Just because the particular 
brand and model is at the top of the list or any ranking for that matter, 
does not make it "the best" or better than another one on the list.  I have 
downloaded the list to EXCEL and thus I can sort on any parameter.  When 
this is done one will find other brands and models appear at the top of the 
list.  I find there is no receiver on the list that consistently appears at 
or near the top with any relevance of sort routine.

There are other factors which I view that make for a "good receiver".   I 
personally place a lot of weight on receive audio quality.  To that I do 
include the internal speaker, what ever it may be.  One point I will not 
accept is poor audio quality for it makes not only inferior sound but for 
extended listening it is very fatiguing.   To support this point, I recently 
loaned my Eagle to a close friend.  While it was on his desk, his wife 
commented; "that little radio sounds much better than the ones you have". 
He has other brands and models, some much more expensive than the Eagle, pre 
or post sale promotion prices.    From my take, the best receiver 
performance but with poor or inadequate audio is a lousy receiver.  Thus I 
say what good is all the advanced electronics ahead of the audio chain?  In 
speaking of "chain" ---- the strength of a chain is defined by its weakest 
link.  A poor audio system makes for a poor receiver.

Tentec has always been known for good quality audio both on TX and RX. With 
this and other good quality attributes, their on air performance usually is 
equal to or is better than most other brands or models.

Clearly the difference between the Omni VII and the Eagle are quite notable. 
I find it necessary to use slightly different operating techniques with the 
two radios in order to attain optimum results with each one.  Thus I've 
always said, don't operate a Tentec radio like others one may have or use. 
They are distinctly unique and different.

***************
As to the background pertaining to the current sales promotion, I can 
speculate on this just like many others have done.  One point I've not seen 
advanced in these discussions is one I've not expressed but will do so.

Perhaps with the age of the Omni VII and the Eagle and the technology in the 
Argonaut VI, like most companies, Tentec has realized and amortized their R 
& D costs for these products.  Once R & D is amortized, those costs are 
usually no longer included in the cost of the manufactured product. 
Therefore the costs have gone down and the new reduced cost basis can be 
then factored to retail price.  It is this new price that is not being used 
to sell the products.

As a case and point, about 5 years ago we purchased a 42" Sony HD LED TV for 
about $2200.  Last year a lightning strike destroyed that TV. It was 
replaced with a 48" Sony HD LED TV for about $899.

****************


73
Bob, K4TAX




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP" <Rick at DJ0IP.de>
To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle


> Bob,
>
> That was good stuff.
> If I find the time, I will try to merge both our lists into one.
> I just now noticed, the OM7 announced in 2004, not 2007, so it has been 10
> years since I have used or even seen an OM7.
>
> I would like to say a few words about receiver performance now, showing ON
> THE AIR TESTS made on the OM7.
>
> Rob Sherwood's list shows measured lab numbers and Rob shares with us his
> opinion of what is required by most people in order to have a good enough
> receiver.  What few people have picked up on is that he has raised the
> numbers by 5%. He is now saying 75dB BDR3 for SSB and 85dB for CW.  This 
> is
> slightly higher than what the OM7 can achieve (on CW) but lower than the
> Eagle.
>
> NEVER-THE-LESS, those are just numbers, meaningless to most of us hams.
> So what real world difference does it make?
>
> Perhaps I am the only person who ever tested and 'documented' this in a 
> real
> world environment that showed a distinct difference.  In reality, 99.9% of
> us will never have that environment AND that specific environment can no
> longer be reproduced.
> However, I do want to point out that at that time, there was indeed a very
> distinct advantage in favor of the radio with the highest BDR3.
>
> In 2004, a couple of weeks before the OMNI VII announced, I conducted a
> transceiver test (I think I called it "intermod shootout") at one of our
> contest sites.  The test was conducted on 40m on a Friday evening, but no
> big contest was running.  However this was BEFORE the shortwave broadcast
> stations had moved outside of the ham band, so the total amount of voltage
> hitting a receiver's front end (here in Europe) was tremendous! 
> Tremendous
> because I was using a 3 element 40m Yagi at 105 ft. height.  This
> environment can never be repeated because the broadcast stations are gone
> now.
>
> In addition, rotating the beam made a big difference in the amount of
> intermodulation generated by the receivers and the direction
> North/North-East was the worst.  I left the beam in that direction, then
> compared several transceivers.
> At that time, the "Meister" was the Orion (1).  There was no Eagle or O2
> yet.
>
> The (sometimes significant) difference between all 7 transceivers tested 
> was
> recorded in a video (for each radio) showing the S-Meter and recording the
> accompanying sound.  You can see and hear the difference in these videos.
> These results have been posted on the Bavarian Contest Club web site for
> more than 10 years now.
>
> Lots of people speculate about all kinds of things including receiver
> performance and Ten-Tec going out of business.
> I haven't figured out a way to benchmark TT going out of business, but I 
> do
> know how to test receivers in a real world environment, and when I test
> stuff, I post it to the Internet for everyone to see and hear.
>
> In today's environment, the only way to approximate this type of 
> challenging
> band condx is to operate in the middle of a very BIG contest, such as CQWW
> DX contest, especially in CW!  AND, as I stated earlier, when operating,
> don't skip over the messy pile-ups, jump in and work the station on that
> frequency.  THAT'S WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IS!
>
> I've posted this link several times before but I'll post it again.
> Here's the LINK:
> http://www.bavarian-contest-club.de/reviews/Transceiver-intermod-shootout-on
> -40M-in-europe-;art32,565
> Look under "RESULTS" to find clickable links to the video files.
>
> (NOTE: most likely the link will be broken by the reflector.  Copy 
> it -both
> lines of it, together- and paste it into your browser).
>
> Two comments:  first, I am indeed the world's worst photographer, which is
> evident from these videos, but the message does come through.  Second, in
> the excitement, I sometimes unknowingly switched to speaking German 
> instead
> of English.  That's because the station owner who is German was testing 
> with
> me and he was commenting to me in German, causing my brain to switch from
> 7-bit to 8-bit ASCII.  I guess there was a sticky bit! (hi)
>
> THE BOTTOM LINE:
> Receiver performance is a highly misunderstood subject, partly because we
> each have our own definition of what our needs are.  It is impossible to
> make a list ranking true receiver performance and reflect the true
> performance of each radio. Rob is the first person to tell us that in all 
> of
> his presentations.  He tells us of the many other important things, first
> and foremost, "you have to enjoy using the radio".  THIS IS MORE IMPORTANT
> THAN ANY LIST, and the only person on the planet that can determine that 
> is
> YOU.
>
> Rob's list shows the radios ranked by BDR3, nothing more.
> It may be used as one of many selection criterion but it certainly is not
> the most decisive one.
>
> The biggest difference between the Eagle and the OM7 is in the ergonomics 
> of
> the radios.
> How you use them and navigate the menus is VERY different.
> Many people will not like the Eagle.  I love it.
> Some may not like the OM7 because it doesn't have separate AF/RF gain
> controls and because it's Panadaptor is not very good.  Other than that, 
> my
> guess is that most people will be more comfortable operating to OM7.
>
> But if you are a serious contester, take the Eagle (unless you absolutely
> need OmniRig support).
>
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob 
> McGraw
> - K4TAX
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 3:20 AM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle
>
> Well Rick as you know, I have both on the desk.
>
> The Eagle receiver is somewhat better.  How much well with the optional
> filters in the Omni VII and both used for CW, I perceive one would find it
> necessary to have both radios and the ability to switch between the two to
> discern much if any difference.  Sherwood Engineering has the Eagle 
> Dynamic
> range Narrow spaced measured at 90 dB while the Omni VII is measured at 80
> dB.  Rob also stated that most hams will find the 80 dB performance most
> adequate.
>
> However, per Sherwood Engineering Receiver report, the Noise floor on the
> Omni VII is -130 & -140 dBm while the noise floor on the Eagle is -124 &
> -132 dBm.
>
> The display on the Omni VII is much easier to see and read plus it gives
> more information and one can see the S meter  {Rick}.
>
> The S meter on the Omni VII goes to 60 dB over S-9 while the S meter on 
> the
> Eagle goes to 30 dB over S-9.
>
> The S meter on the Eagle shows only signal strength and SWR.  The S meter 
> on
> the Omni VII shows signal strength and is user selectable between PWR out
> and SWR.
>
> The Eagle has dual concentric knobs for AF gain and RF gain and another 
> set
> for PBT and BW.  The Omni VII has one knob that has a momentary push in to
> toggle between the two functions.
>
> The Omni VII had separate RIT and XIT buttons and displays. The Eagle had
> only a RIT function which is difficult to read the value on the display.
>
> The Omni VII has a CW spot function.  The Eagle does not.
>
> The Eagle has a hardware Noise Blanker.   The Omni VII has a firmware 
> Noise
> Blanker.
>
> The Eagle DSP BW works nicely down to 100 Hz while the Omni VII DSP BW 
> only
> goes to 200 Hz.  For both radios, any optional filters automatically 
> switch
> in the RX path as the respective BW is selected.
>
> The Omni VII RX BW is adjustable up to 12 KHz standard.  The Eagle BW
> adjustable up to the widest roofing filter installed.
>
> The MENU on the Omni  VII is accessed by a MENU button on the front panel.
> The Eagle Config Menu must start with the power off, hold down FNC and 
> then
> turn power on.
>
> The KEY jack on the Omni VII is on the front and is a 1/4" TRS connector.
> The KEY jack on the Eagle is on the rear and is a 1/8" TRS connector.
>
> The EXT SPKR jack on the Omni VII is on the rear and is a 1/4" TR 
> connector.
>
> The EXT SPKR jack on the Eagle is on the rear and is a 1/8" T R connector.
>
> The Omni  VII has a dedicated button for TUNE and PWR while the Eagle one
> must use the FNC before accessing the PWR function.
>
> The Eagle is controlled externally via USB communications port.  The Omni
> VII is controlled externally by a RS-232 port.
>
> The Omni VII has a direct internet connection.  The Eagle does not offer
> this feature.
>
> The Omni VII offers two ANT port plus a separate RX ANT port.  The Eagle
> only offers a single ANT port.
>
> The Omni VII offers direct frequency entry.  The Eagle does not have 
> direct
> frequency entry.
>
> The Omni VII can switch direct to any band with the push of a button.  The
> Eagle must cycle through several bands to get to the others.
>
> The ATU is much faster to resolve a match with the Omni VII.  The Eagle
> takes a bit longer to resolve a match. Both radios ATU will match a 10:1 
> SWR
> or better.
>
> The Eagle is about 1/4 the size of the Omni VII
>
>
>
>
> I could do three or four  pages of this stuff.  How much more do you want 
> or
>
> need?    Best bet, just download both manuals from the Tentec website and
> read them.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP" <Rick at DJ0IP.de>
> To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 4:10 PM
> Subject: [TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle
>
>
>>I was just asked off list for reasons to warrant spending the extra bread
>>on
>> an OM7 instead of an Eagle.
>> Ha!  I had to bite my tongue to keep from saying "none, there aren't 
>> any!"
>> (hi)
>>
>> There are of course 2 or 3 minor reasons and I've created my list below.
>> Perhaps someone else more familiar with the OM7 than I am can think of
>> other
>> reasons that I have forgotten.
>> Grateful to any additional tips.
>>
>> (and to the OM who asked me this question, if you do not subscribe to the
>> tentec group at contesting.com, send me another email and I will forward
>> you
>> any replies we get).
>> ==========================================================
>>
>> Hi OM, (name withheld)
>>
>> You do realize of course that you have posed that question to a man in
>> love
>> with his Eagle!  (hi)
>> OK, but I will try and be objective on this.
>>
>> The Eagle's better receiver is really only noticeable in BIG contests
>> where
>> a good operator is willing to dive into the middle of the heaviest 
>> pile-up
>> on the band to work whatever DX multiplier is under all the rumble. 
>> Apart
>> from that, there is not a lot of difference in the two receivers. 
>> However
>> when the going gets tough, the Eagle will outshine the Omni 7.
>>
>> I'll start with the only other negative of the OM7 over the Eagle: it has
>> only one knob for AF and RF gain.  Not the end of the world but separate
>> knobs would have been better.
>>
>> And of course if you go backpacking, I'd rather carry an Eagle!  (hi)
>> Same applies for mobile operations.
>>
>> Now here is my short list of features the OM7 has which the Eagle does
>> not:
>>
>> . A larger read out, including an S-Meter that you can actually see and
>> read
>>
>> . Better interfacing to old amplifiers (or new Ameritron amplifiers) in 
>> CW
>> mode.  The OM7 has adjustable hang delay on the tail end of the signal.
>> The
>> Eagle does not have this feature and if you have one of these amps, you
>> absolutely need it.  With the Eagle, you must purchase the Model 318 Amp
>> Keyer for a hundred bucks.
>>
>> . Interfacing to Ten-Tec full QSK amplifiers (dual-cable keying).  The
>> Eagle
>> does not have this.  If you don't have a full QSK linear with this keying
>> loop circuitry, it doesn't matter.
>>
>> . A band scope (though it's not the greatest)
>>
>> . Larger heat sink on the back side for cooling the final transistors.
>> You
>> really do not need a fan unless you are running RTTY.  The Eagle doesn't
>> have this so it must rely on a fan. It is not terribly loud but it is
>> audible.
>>
>> . Direct frequency entry keypad
>>
>> . Curtis mode A and B keying.  It's fixed on the Eagle, but I have no 
>> idea
>> which one.  Somehow I never paid any attention to that stuff.  I just key
>> whatever they throw at me and it somehow seems to always work.
>>
>> . Two spare RCA phono plugs AND an internal provision to connect two coax
>> cables to these to be used as connection for a pre-selector or noise
>> cancelor.
>>
>> . A serial port.
>>
>> . Connection for the POD (the remote VFO knob).  I sometimes miss this on
>> my
>> Eagle.
>>
>> . 2 antenna jacks
>>
>> . Ethernet connection
>>
>> . AUX RX (antenna) - an input for a receive-only antenna (uses one of the
>> two ANT connections)
>>
>> . Adjustable bandwidth on SSB
>>
>> . Adjustable RX and TX equalizers
>>
>> . CTCSS for FM
>>
>> . Adjustable CW (keying) weighting
>>
>> . SPOT (for spotting in CW) - which I personally feel is worthless
>>
>> . Adjustable rise/fall time on CW.  A fancy option but I don't feel it is
>> necessary.  The Eagle's CW signal is just fine.
>>
>> . FSK X Data (if you are into RTTY)
>>
>> . VFO Speed Shift which basically speeds up the tuning rate by a factor 
>> of
>
>> 4
>> when you turn the VFO knob real fast.  Many people like this feature a
>> lot.
>>
>> . A very comfortable software menu (probably the very best in the
>> industry)
>>
>> . OmniRig support (very important for many 3rd party software programs)
>>
>> . A dedicated RIT/XIT knob (using the RIT on the Eagle is very clumsy)
>>
>> . And of course REMOTE CONTROL (over the Internet)
>>
>> That's all that comes to mind right now, but keep in mind that I do not
>> own
>> an OM7 and the last time I even saw or used one was in 2007.  That was 7
>> years ago. and my old grey cells "ain't what they used to be".
>>
>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> TenTec at contesting.com
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>>
>
>
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