[TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle
Bob McGraw - K4TAX
RMcGraw at Blomand.net
Thu Jul 10 18:54:13 EDT 2014
Can't exactly say which is correct. I do know serveral of the e-mails I've
received agree with you while the majority do not agree.
Anyway it is, as I stated, speculation.
73
Bob, K4TAX
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Fritkin via TenTec" <tentec at contesting.com>
To: "R. Eric Sluder" <resluder at yahoo.com>; "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment"
<tentec at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle
> In all my years of running companies, including my own,
> I have never amortized R&D, it is always expensed. On very rare occasion
> do you amortize R&D. Ask the boys at World Com!! You will find out why.
>
> George, W6GF
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jul 10, 2014, at 7:19 AM, "R. Eric Sluder via TenTec"
>> <tentec at contesting.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jul 10, 2014, at 8:20 AM, "Bob McGraw - K4TAX" <RMcGraw at Blomand.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Rick et al;
>>>
>>> Your comments are very appropriate. Yes, merge my comments and
>>> observations with yours.
>>>
>>> Last evening with the two radios sitting in front of me, I quickly
>>> created the list. There is a lot more that could have been added.
>>> From my take, numbers are numbers, and the real proof of the pie is
>>> actual on the air usage in a given location and specific circumstances.
>>> In many cases today one will actually need two or more radios on the
>>> desk to make a real and valid evaluation. To this end, the Tentec 30
>>> day trial period does exactly this and this is something no other
>>> company provides.
>>>
>>> Rob has done an outstanding job of measuring and presenting results of
>>> many receiver brands and models. He is to be highly commended for his
>>> excellent work. I do caution, those looking to his Receiver Test Data,
>>> should understand exactly what is being presented. Just because the
>>> particular brand and model is at the top of the list or any ranking for
>>> that matter, does not make it "the best" or better than another one on
>>> the list. I have downloaded the list to EXCEL and thus I can sort on
>>> any parameter. When this is done one will find other brands and models
>>> appear at the top of the list. I find there is no receiver on the list
>>> that consistently appears at or near the top with any relevance of sort
>>> routine.
>>>
>>> There are other factors which I view that make for a "good receiver".
>>> I personally place a lot of weight on receive audio quality. To that I
>>> do include the internal speaker, what ever it may be. One point I will
>>> not accept is poor audio quality for it makes not only inferior sound
>>> but for extended listening it is very fatiguing. To support this
>>> point, I recently loaned my Eagle to a close friend. While it was on
>>> his desk, his wife commented; "that little radio sounds much better than
>>> the ones you have". He has other brands and models, some much more
>>> expensive than the Eagle, pre or post sale promotion prices. From my
>>> take, the best receiver performance but with poor or inadequate audio is
>>> a lousy receiver. Thus I say what good is all the advanced electronics
>>> ahead of the audio chain? In speaking of "chain" ---- the strength of a
>>> chain is defined by its weakest link. A poor audio system makes for a
>>> poor receiver.
>>>
>>> Tentec has always been known for good quality audio both on TX and RX.
>>> With this and other good quality attributes, their on air performance
>>> usually is equal to or is better than most other brands or models.
>>>
>>> Clearly the difference between the Omni VII and the Eagle are quite
>>> notable. I find it necessary to use slightly different operating
>>> techniques with the two radios in order to attain optimum results with
>>> each one. Thus I've always said, don't operate a Tentec radio like
>>> others one may have or use. They are distinctly unique and different.
>>>
>>> ***************
>>> As to the background pertaining to the current sales promotion, I can
>>> speculate on this just like many others have done. One point I've not
>>> seen advanced in these discussions is one I've not expressed but will do
>>> so.
>>>
>>> Perhaps with the age of the Omni VII and the Eagle and the technology in
>>> the Argonaut VI, like most companies, Tentec has realized and amortized
>>> their R & D costs for these products. Once R & D is amortized, those
>>> costs are usually no longer included in the cost of the manufactured
>>> product. Therefore the costs have gone down and the new reduced cost
>>> basis can be then factored to retail price. It is this new price that
>>> is not being used to sell the products.
>>>
>>> As a case and point, about 5 years ago we purchased a 42" Sony HD LED TV
>>> for about $2200. Last year a lightning strike destroyed that TV. It was
>>> replaced with a 48" Sony HD LED TV for about $899.
>>>
>>> ****************
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP"
>>> <Rick at DJ0IP.de>
>>> To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 2:29 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bob,
>>>>
>>>> That was good stuff.
>>>> If I find the time, I will try to merge both our lists into one.
>>>> I just now noticed, the OM7 announced in 2004, not 2007, so it has been
>>>> 10
>>>> years since I have used or even seen an OM7.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to say a few words about receiver performance now, showing
>>>> ON
>>>> THE AIR TESTS made on the OM7.
>>>>
>>>> Rob Sherwood's list shows measured lab numbers and Rob shares with us
>>>> his
>>>> opinion of what is required by most people in order to have a good
>>>> enough
>>>> receiver. What few people have picked up on is that he has raised the
>>>> numbers by 5%. He is now saying 75dB BDR3 for SSB and 85dB for CW.
>>>> This is
>>>> slightly higher than what the OM7 can achieve (on CW) but lower than
>>>> the
>>>> Eagle.
>>>>
>>>> NEVER-THE-LESS, those are just numbers, meaningless to most of us hams.
>>>> So what real world difference does it make?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps I am the only person who ever tested and 'documented' this in a
>>>> real
>>>> world environment that showed a distinct difference. In reality, 99.9%
>>>> of
>>>> us will never have that environment AND that specific environment can
>>>> no
>>>> longer be reproduced.
>>>> However, I do want to point out that at that time, there was indeed a
>>>> very
>>>> distinct advantage in favor of the radio with the highest BDR3.
>>>>
>>>> In 2004, a couple of weeks before the OMNI VII announced, I conducted a
>>>> transceiver test (I think I called it "intermod shootout") at one of
>>>> our
>>>> contest sites. The test was conducted on 40m on a Friday evening, but
>>>> no
>>>> big contest was running. However this was BEFORE the shortwave
>>>> broadcast
>>>> stations had moved outside of the ham band, so the total amount of
>>>> voltage
>>>> hitting a receiver's front end (here in Europe) was tremendous!
>>>> Tremendous
>>>> because I was using a 3 element 40m Yagi at 105 ft. height. This
>>>> environment can never be repeated because the broadcast stations are
>>>> gone
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>>> In addition, rotating the beam made a big difference in the amount of
>>>> intermodulation generated by the receivers and the direction
>>>> North/North-East was the worst. I left the beam in that direction,
>>>> then
>>>> compared several transceivers.
>>>> At that time, the "Meister" was the Orion (1). There was no Eagle or
>>>> O2
>>>> yet.
>>>>
>>>> The (sometimes significant) difference between all 7 transceivers
>>>> tested was
>>>> recorded in a video (for each radio) showing the S-Meter and recording
>>>> the
>>>> accompanying sound. You can see and hear the difference in these
>>>> videos.
>>>> These results have been posted on the Bavarian Contest Club web site
>>>> for
>>>> more than 10 years now.
>>>>
>>>> Lots of people speculate about all kinds of things including receiver
>>>> performance and Ten-Tec going out of business.
>>>> I haven't figured out a way to benchmark TT going out of business, but
>>>> I do
>>>> know how to test receivers in a real world environment, and when I test
>>>> stuff, I post it to the Internet for everyone to see and hear.
>>>>
>>>> In today's environment, the only way to approximate this type of
>>>> challenging
>>>> band condx is to operate in the middle of a very BIG contest, such as
>>>> CQWW
>>>> DX contest, especially in CW! AND, as I stated earlier, when
>>>> operating,
>>>> don't skip over the messy pile-ups, jump in and work the station on
>>>> that
>>>> frequency. THAT'S WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IS!
>>>>
>>>> I've posted this link several times before but I'll post it again.
>>>> Here's the LINK:
>>>> http://www.bavarian-contest-club.de/reviews/Transceiver-intermod-shootout-on
>>>> -40M-in-europe-;art32,565
>>>> Look under "RESULTS" to find clickable links to the video files.
>>>>
>>>> (NOTE: most likely the link will be broken by the reflector. Copy
>>>> it -both
>>>> lines of it, together- and paste it into your browser).
>>>>
>>>> Two comments: first, I am indeed the world's worst photographer, which
>>>> is
>>>> evident from these videos, but the message does come through. Second,
>>>> in
>>>> the excitement, I sometimes unknowingly switched to speaking German
>>>> instead
>>>> of English. That's because the station owner who is German was testing
>>>> with
>>>> me and he was commenting to me in German, causing my brain to switch
>>>> from
>>>> 7-bit to 8-bit ASCII. I guess there was a sticky bit! (hi)
>>>>
>>>> THE BOTTOM LINE:
>>>> Receiver performance is a highly misunderstood subject, partly because
>>>> we
>>>> each have our own definition of what our needs are. It is impossible
>>>> to
>>>> make a list ranking true receiver performance and reflect the true
>>>> performance of each radio. Rob is the first person to tell us that in
>>>> all of
>>>> his presentations. He tells us of the many other important things,
>>>> first
>>>> and foremost, "you have to enjoy using the radio". THIS IS MORE
>>>> IMPORTANT
>>>> THAN ANY LIST, and the only person on the planet that can determine
>>>> that is
>>>> YOU.
>>>>
>>>> Rob's list shows the radios ranked by BDR3, nothing more.
>>>> It may be used as one of many selection criterion but it certainly is
>>>> not
>>>> the most decisive one.
>>>>
>>>> The biggest difference between the Eagle and the OM7 is in the
>>>> ergonomics of
>>>> the radios.
>>>> How you use them and navigate the menus is VERY different.
>>>> Many people will not like the Eagle. I love it.
>>>> Some may not like the OM7 because it doesn't have separate AF/RF gain
>>>> controls and because it's Panadaptor is not very good. Other than
>>>> that, my
>>>> guess is that most people will be more comfortable operating to OM7.
>>>>
>>>> But if you are a serious contester, take the Eagle (unless you
>>>> absolutely
>>>> need OmniRig support).
>>>>
>>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob
>>>> McGraw
>>>> - K4TAX
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 3:20 AM
>>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle
>>>>
>>>> Well Rick as you know, I have both on the desk.
>>>>
>>>> The Eagle receiver is somewhat better. How much well with the optional
>>>> filters in the Omni VII and both used for CW, I perceive one would find
>>>> it
>>>> necessary to have both radios and the ability to switch between the two
>>>> to
>>>> discern much if any difference. Sherwood Engineering has the Eagle
>>>> Dynamic
>>>> range Narrow spaced measured at 90 dB while the Omni VII is measured at
>>>> 80
>>>> dB. Rob also stated that most hams will find the 80 dB performance
>>>> most
>>>> adequate.
>>>>
>>>> However, per Sherwood Engineering Receiver report, the Noise floor on
>>>> the
>>>> Omni VII is -130 & -140 dBm while the noise floor on the Eagle is -124
>>>> &
>>>> -132 dBm.
>>>>
>>>> The display on the Omni VII is much easier to see and read plus it
>>>> gives
>>>> more information and one can see the S meter {Rick}.
>>>>
>>>> The S meter on the Omni VII goes to 60 dB over S-9 while the S meter on
>>>> the
>>>> Eagle goes to 30 dB over S-9.
>>>>
>>>> The S meter on the Eagle shows only signal strength and SWR. The S
>>>> meter on
>>>> the Omni VII shows signal strength and is user selectable between PWR
>>>> out
>>>> and SWR.
>>>>
>>>> The Eagle has dual concentric knobs for AF gain and RF gain and another
>>>> set
>>>> for PBT and BW. The Omni VII has one knob that has a momentary push in
>>>> to
>>>> toggle between the two functions.
>>>>
>>>> The Omni VII had separate RIT and XIT buttons and displays. The Eagle
>>>> had
>>>> only a RIT function which is difficult to read the value on the
>>>> display.
>>>>
>>>> The Omni VII has a CW spot function. The Eagle does not.
>>>>
>>>> The Eagle has a hardware Noise Blanker. The Omni VII has a firmware
>>>> Noise
>>>> Blanker.
>>>>
>>>> The Eagle DSP BW works nicely down to 100 Hz while the Omni VII DSP BW
>>>> only
>>>> goes to 200 Hz. For both radios, any optional filters automatically
>>>> switch
>>>> in the RX path as the respective BW is selected.
>>>>
>>>> The Omni VII RX BW is adjustable up to 12 KHz standard. The Eagle BW
>>>> adjustable up to the widest roofing filter installed.
>>>>
>>>> The MENU on the Omni VII is accessed by a MENU button on the front
>>>> panel.
>>>> The Eagle Config Menu must start with the power off, hold down FNC and
>>>> then
>>>> turn power on.
>>>>
>>>> The KEY jack on the Omni VII is on the front and is a 1/4" TRS
>>>> connector.
>>>> The KEY jack on the Eagle is on the rear and is a 1/8" TRS connector.
>>>>
>>>> The EXT SPKR jack on the Omni VII is on the rear and is a 1/4" TR
>>>> connector.
>>>>
>>>> The EXT SPKR jack on the Eagle is on the rear and is a 1/8" T R
>>>> connector.
>>>>
>>>> The Omni VII has a dedicated button for TUNE and PWR while the Eagle
>>>> one
>>>> must use the FNC before accessing the PWR function.
>>>>
>>>> The Eagle is controlled externally via USB communications port. The
>>>> Omni
>>>> VII is controlled externally by a RS-232 port.
>>>>
>>>> The Omni VII has a direct internet connection. The Eagle does not
>>>> offer
>>>> this feature.
>>>>
>>>> The Omni VII offers two ANT port plus a separate RX ANT port. The
>>>> Eagle
>>>> only offers a single ANT port.
>>>>
>>>> The Omni VII offers direct frequency entry. The Eagle does not have
>>>> direct
>>>> frequency entry.
>>>>
>>>> The Omni VII can switch direct to any band with the push of a button.
>>>> The
>>>> Eagle must cycle through several bands to get to the others.
>>>>
>>>> The ATU is much faster to resolve a match with the Omni VII. The Eagle
>>>> takes a bit longer to resolve a match. Both radios ATU will match a
>>>> 10:1 SWR
>>>> or better.
>>>>
>>>> The Eagle is about 1/4 the size of the Omni VII
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I could do three or four pages of this stuff. How much more do you
>>>> want or
>>>>
>>>> need? Best bet, just download both manuals from the Tentec website
>>>> and
>>>> read them.
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP" <Rick at DJ0IP.de>
>>>> To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec at contesting.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 4:10 PM
>>>> Subject: [TenTec] Reasons to buy an OM7 instead of an Eagle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I was just asked off list for reasons to warrant spending the extra
>>>>> bread
>>>>> on
>>>>> an OM7 instead of an Eagle.
>>>>> Ha! I had to bite my tongue to keep from saying "none, there aren't
>>>>> any!"
>>>>> (hi)
>>>>>
>>>>> There are of course 2 or 3 minor reasons and I've created my list
>>>>> below.
>>>>> Perhaps someone else more familiar with the OM7 than I am can think of
>>>>> other
>>>>> reasons that I have forgotten.
>>>>> Grateful to any additional tips.
>>>>>
>>>>> (and to the OM who asked me this question, if you do not subscribe to
>>>>> the
>>>>> tentec group at contesting.com, send me another email and I will
>>>>> forward
>>>>> you
>>>>> any replies we get).
>>>>> ==========================================================
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi OM, (name withheld)
>>>>>
>>>>> You do realize of course that you have posed that question to a man in
>>>>> love
>>>>> with his Eagle! (hi)
>>>>> OK, but I will try and be objective on this.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Eagle's better receiver is really only noticeable in BIG contests
>>>>> where
>>>>> a good operator is willing to dive into the middle of the heaviest
>>>>> pile-up
>>>>> on the band to work whatever DX multiplier is under all the rumble.
>>>>> Apart
>>>>> from that, there is not a lot of difference in the two receivers.
>>>>> However
>>>>> when the going gets tough, the Eagle will outshine the Omni 7.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll start with the only other negative of the OM7 over the Eagle: it
>>>>> has
>>>>> only one knob for AF and RF gain. Not the end of the world but
>>>>> separate
>>>>> knobs would have been better.
>>>>>
>>>>> And of course if you go backpacking, I'd rather carry an Eagle! (hi)
>>>>> Same applies for mobile operations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now here is my short list of features the OM7 has which the Eagle does
>>>>> not:
>>>>>
>>>>> . A larger read out, including an S-Meter that you can actually see
>>>>> and
>>>>> read
>>>>>
>>>>> . Better interfacing to old amplifiers (or new Ameritron amplifiers)
>>>>> in CW
>>>>> mode. The OM7 has adjustable hang delay on the tail end of the
>>>>> signal.
>>>>> The
>>>>> Eagle does not have this feature and if you have one of these amps,
>>>>> you
>>>>> absolutely need it. With the Eagle, you must purchase the Model 318
>>>>> Amp
>>>>> Keyer for a hundred bucks.
>>>>>
>>>>> . Interfacing to Ten-Tec full QSK amplifiers (dual-cable keying). The
>>>>> Eagle
>>>>> does not have this. If you don't have a full QSK linear with this
>>>>> keying
>>>>> loop circuitry, it doesn't matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> . A band scope (though it's not the greatest)
>>>>>
>>>>> . Larger heat sink on the back side for cooling the final transistors.
>>>>> You
>>>>> really do not need a fan unless you are running RTTY. The Eagle
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> have this so it must rely on a fan. It is not terribly loud but it is
>>>>> audible.
>>>>>
>>>>> . Direct frequency entry keypad
>>>>>
>>>>> . Curtis mode A and B keying. It's fixed on the Eagle, but I have no
>>>>> idea
>>>>> which one. Somehow I never paid any attention to that stuff. I just
>>>>> key
>>>>> whatever they throw at me and it somehow seems to always work.
>>>>>
>>>>> . Two spare RCA phono plugs AND an internal provision to connect two
>>>>> coax
>>>>> cables to these to be used as connection for a pre-selector or noise
>>>>> cancelor.
>>>>>
>>>>> . A serial port.
>>>>>
>>>>> . Connection for the POD (the remote VFO knob). I sometimes miss this
>>>>> on
>>>>> my
>>>>> Eagle.
>>>>>
>>>>> . 2 antenna jacks
>>>>>
>>>>> . Ethernet connection
>>>>>
>>>>> . AUX RX (antenna) - an input for a receive-only antenna (uses one of
>>>>> the
>>>>> two ANT connections)
>>>>>
>>>>> . Adjustable bandwidth on SSB
>>>>>
>>>>> . Adjustable RX and TX equalizers
>>>>>
>>>>> . CTCSS for FM
>>>>>
>>>>> . Adjustable CW (keying) weighting
>>>>>
>>>>> . SPOT (for spotting in CW) - which I personally feel is worthless
>>>>>
>>>>> . Adjustable rise/fall time on CW. A fancy option but I don't feel it
>>>>> is
>>>>> necessary. The Eagle's CW signal is just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> . FSK X Data (if you are into RTTY)
>>>>>
>>>>> . VFO Speed Shift which basically speeds up the tuning rate by a
>>>>> factor of
>>>>
>>>>> 4
>>>>> when you turn the VFO knob real fast. Many people like this feature a
>>>>> lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> . A very comfortable software menu (probably the very best in the
>>>>> industry)
>>>>>
>>>>> . OmniRig support (very important for many 3rd party software
>>>>> programs)
>>>>>
>>>>> . A dedicated RIT/XIT knob (using the RIT on the Eagle is very clumsy)
>>>>>
>>>>> . And of course REMOTE CONTROL (over the Internet)
>>>>>
>>>>> That's all that comes to mind right now, but keep in mind that I do
>>>>> not
>>>>> own
>>>>> an OM7 and the last time I even saw or used one was in 2007. That was
>>>>> 7
>>>>> years ago. and my old grey cells "ain't what they used to be".
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TenTec mailing list
>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>> _______________________________________________
>> TenTec mailing list
>> TenTec at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
> _______________________________________________
> TenTec mailing list
> TenTec at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>
More information about the TenTec
mailing list