[TenTec] Pan-Adaptor vs. Using BandMap with Ten-Tec Transceivers

[Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP]

Well a BandMap is not exactly blind and dumb.
$1K towards a new radio is already a good start.

Question Barry, do you run assisted or unassisted?
And the 2nd, have you used the BandMap aggressively?

Before using a BandMap, and running just wire antennas (dipole) and 600w, my
typical score was about 500K.
The first year using the bandmap it jumped to 800K and the second year to
1M+.
And that without a properly integrated BandMap (lack of OmniRig support).

A BandMap is worth a lot of money to me, but I didn't have to pay for it
because it is for free to everyone, assuming you have a good contest logging
software already.

73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)


-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Barry N1EU
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:40 PM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Pan-Adaptor vs. Using BandMap with Ten-Tec
Transceivers

It's not worth it.

I think you either go "whole hog" with a Flex 6K or go blind, dumb and happy
with a classic radio.

73, Barry N1EU

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:06 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP <Rick at dj0ip.de> wrote:

> GM Barry,
>
> Tnx for the input.  It's a valid point.
>
> If he's in the bandmap, I will also know that.
> If not, you're right, I will go right past him and not know he was there.
> Perhaps I'll miss him forever, but maybe I'll get him on the next pass.
>
> Honestly, I estimate my cost of implementing a good band scope to be 
> about $1000, including the computer stuff I'll have to buy. There was 
> I time I would have just reached into my pocket and pulled out the 
> money, but now that I'm retired, that represents about 2 years of entire
ham radio budget.
>
>
> I have to weigh this decision against what else I could buy with that 
> money.
> I can name plenty of other things I don't have and right now and would 
> prefer to spend my money on.
>
> A higher priority is a new NAS drive.  The old one has been running 
> day and night for 5 years now.  I need to replace it before it breaks.  
> That's already a couple hundred gone.
>
> Then there's a high power cross-needle watt meter.  I also would like 
> a dual-line RF-Ammeter, so that I can measure current on both sides of 
> openwire at the same time.  I'd like to buy and try the Ten-Tec 
> RF-Speech Processor, and maybe even buy a headset with mic, just in 
> case I ever go back on my word and do another SSB contest.  But for 
> that I would also need a voice memory box.  Lots more stuff to spend 
> the money on instead of a bandscope.
>
> Agn, good point.  One which I hadn't thought about.
> TNX
>
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Barry 
> N1EU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 11:49 AM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Pan-Adaptor vs. Using BandMap with Ten-Tec 
> Transceivers
>
> When you're tuning the band in S&P, you can see in advance when coming 
> to a frequency that the cq'ing station is momentarily listening and 
> you know to pause on the frequency for a second and listen for the 
> station to resume cq'ing rather than possibly tune right by him.
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP <Rick at dj0ip.de>
> wrote:
>
> > I separated this out from the "Future Radio" thread.
> > Both of these features are here already today.
> >
> > I AM STILL TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE BANDSCOPE (or Pan-Adaptor) 
> > WILL HELP "ME" in "my way" of working DX contests.
> > I know it helps for other things, but how will it improve my contest
> score?
> >
> > For this thread, I hope you guys will focus on my specific problem 
> > (which may very well be my slowness to understand), rather than try 
> > to sell me the general benefits of using a Pan-Adapter for all sorts 
> > of other applications.
> >
> > First, I understand that people have different interests and we all 
> > like to play with technology.  I understand how it is fun and 
> > helpful to
> others.
> > But for my needs?
> >
> > My main interest in operating are:
> >
> > .1.Working DX Contests (and only those Contests),
> >
> > .2.Working DX-peditions (especially the ones I sponsor),
> >
> > .3.And rag chewing on 80 in SSB.
> >
> > PLEASE FOCUS ONLY ON #1 FOR THIS THREAD.  TNX.
> >
> >
> > I am still trying to understand how a pan-adaptor or bandscope would 
> > help me in a DX contest. that is, help enough that it would warrant 
> > the time, effort and cost necessary to add this feature to my Eagle.
> > It will take some hardware modification to "my" Eagle to do that.  I 
> > have an original version.
> >
> > Remember, every second spent watching that device (or anything else) 
> > is one less second I could be making a QSO, and a QSO usually takes 
> > just 5 seconds.
> >
> > So far nothing I have read has convinced me that it would be worth 
> > the effort (with reference to improving DX Contest scores).
> >
> > Clearly it would be a big aid in chasing the DX-peditions.
> > I understand that.
> > It might even be an aid in my 80m rag chewing because it would help 
> > me identify who is splattering up and down the band.
> >
> > BUT WHERE IS THE BENEFIT IN DX CONTESTING ?
> >  (since I am already making full use of the BandMap with external 
> > spots and skimmer)?
> >
> > The only thing anyone has suggested so far which I fully accept is, 
> > when you decide it's time to stop S&P and call CQ, it helps locate a 
> > clear frequency.
> >
> > In a 48 hour CW contest, I might pause S&P and call CQ for a while, 
> > but I only do that 2 or 3 times each night.
> > I don't do it in an SSB contest at all.
> >
> > I don't call CQ during the day because my signal is not strong 
> > enough to hold a frequency. I have never needed longer than one 
> > minute to find a frequency (160/80/40) and begin working.
> >
> >
> > FIRST THE BANDMAP:
> >
> > When I am operating S&P, my BandMap which is fed by packet posts and 
> > skimmers, shows me:
> >
> > .1.Call Sign and frequency of "Run" stations who are calling CQ
> >
> > .2. Whether or not I have already worked the stn.
> >
> > .3. If the station is a new Country, new Zone, or Both
> >
> > .4. All stations, including those that I cannot even hear because 
> > propagation is not favorable to my QTH
> >
> > Of course #4 is the "gotcha" here with using the BandMap. Room for 
> > improvement.
> >
> > But my gut feeling is, less than 25 of the posts I see are for 
> > stations which I cannot hear.
> > And even if they are, a few hours later propagation changes enough 
> > that they now become "live" for me.
> > So even though I can't hear (i.e. K3LR), I know not to call CQ on 
> > that frequency.
> >
> > The BandMap is totally free for me, because my contest logging 
> > software incorporates this feature.
> > My score has sky-rocketed upwards since I began using the BandMap in 
> > contests.
> > This helped far more than using manual packet spots.
> >
> >
> > SECOND THE BANDSCOPE:
> >
> > Question: is there a difference between a bandscope and a pan-adaptor?
> >
> > BENEFITS:
> >
> > .1. Helps identify clear spots when I'm looking for a frequency to 
> > call
> CQ.
> >
> > GOOD POINT.
> > But weak point for my type of operation because I rarely do this.
> > I don't think anyone does it a lot.  If you are strong enough to 
> > hold a frequency, you just stay there.  Otherwise you do S&P.
> >
> > .2. Lets me know what is going on around my frequency.
> > Why should I care? My radio has excellent filters and in a contest, 
> > I must go to cluttered frequency to work the rare multipliers, 
> > regardless of what's going on around it.
> >
> > When working S&P, I usually don't stay on one frequency longer than 
> > 15 or
> > 20
> > seconds, then I move on.
> >
> > If I'm calling CQ, I still don't care.  If people are calling me and 
> > I can work them, I'm on a good frequency.
> > The entire band is full of signals.  Otherwise I'm on another band.
> >
> > If I happened to settle down on the frequency of a rare DX station, 
> > plenty of people will let me know; I send a "SRI" and QSY.
> >
> > Besides, the Band-Scope won't tell me that I have settled on a DX 
> > station's frequency, but the BandMap will!
> >
> > .3.I can see when other bands are open.
> > GOOD POINT.  Actually EXCELLENT POINT.
> >
> > The packet spots show me this too, to some extent.  Certainly not as 
> > well as the band-scope would.
> > For stations who have full automation, and can double-click to 
> > change bands, this might be a lot more benefit.
> > I need too long to change bands because I have a manually tuned amp, 
> > and manual antenna switch, and manual matchbox.
> > The up side to "manual" is, it usually doesn't break.
> > After each major contest, our BCC reflector is full of people 
> > complaining about automated stuff that broke.
> >
> > My work-around:  I change bands and use the second VFO to scan the 
> > band at a rapid rate in 1kHz steps.  I just listen to bursts 
> > (without stopping).  If the band is full, I consider changing.  It 
> > takes a few minutes for the BandMap to populate, so it is not any 
> > help for this operation.  This process costs me about 60 to 90 seconds.
> >
> > .4. I don't know any others.  Other than it might be fun; but fun 
> > doesn't improve my contest score.
> > HELP ME OUT HERE PLEASE:  _______________________
> >
> > DOWNSIDE OF BANDSCOPE FOR ME:
> >
> > .1.Cost.  I would not only incur the cost for whatever hardware is 
> > needed, I would have to purchase a new computer.  It was suggested 
> > not to use a laptop. This means I would need a computer, keyboard, 
> > and monitor.  However my shack is tiny and already over-crowded, 
> > which is one of the reasons I use a laptop.
> >
> > Doing this is not out of the question, but at the end of the day, is 
> > it really going to improve my score significantly?  I can't see how.
> >
> > It's also very difficult to find a good US-English keyboard over here.
> > I'd probably have to pay shipping from the states.
> > Perhaps Scott (W4PA) could bring me one when he comes to visit next
> summer.
> >
> > .2..Labor:  My early model Eagle motherboard does not have the 
> > connection to run the IF out.  I don't mean the jack on the back, I 
> > mean the connection on the printed circuit board.  I would have to 
> > take a soldering iron to it.  I am technically competent, but with 
> > poor eyesight.  If I do this, there is some risk that I might break 
> > something. A round trip back to the factory costs $300.
> >
> > Again, please keep this thread focused on "how a Band-Scope can help 
> > in DX-Contesting", and not break out in a general discussion of the 
> > benefits of a band-scope.  I understand that there are benefits in 
> > other aspects of the hobby.
> >
> > THANK YOU.
> >
> > 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> > (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > TenTec at contesting.com
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> >
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