[TenTec] din connector, etc.

[Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP]

Mike, let's make sure we are  on the same page.
Jim is complaining about the 15ms being too long.
I am complaining about it being too short.
It all depends on which amp you are using with it.

Also, the Eagle needs a post-dit delay (QSK delay) if used with open-frame
relays.
Otherwise the relay chatter will run you out of the shack.
The Orion, Omni VII and K3 can all add the necessary delay.
The Eagle cannot.  Therefore it needs the Model 318 amp keyer.  The delay is
added by the adjustable pot on the front panel.

73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)


-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Schatzberg
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:31 PM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] din connector, etc.

I'll ask on the 565/566 reflector whether anyone has issues with the 15 ms
delay. 

My relays close in under 1 ms and I don't notice a problem.  Maybe I didn't
watch the scope close enough. I can hear echos. 

Mike
W2AJI 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP <Rick at DJ0IP.de> wrote:
> 
> MIKE, I AM COMPLAINING.
> NOW YOU ARE AWARE OF ONE!  :-)
> 
> By the way, the Orion originally shipped with no hang time.
> Scott and I had a hefty debate whether QSK was the only thing needed 
> and eventually I convinced Jack that there were plenty of people who 
> do not want QSK and plenty more whose amp can't cope with it, so he 
> had Gary contact me to understand the problem and the requirements.  
> Gary changed the software and the post dit delay (hang) was implemented.
> 
> Unfortunately the Eagle didn't get this hang delay either.
> Therefore an external box is required to add it when running older 
> amps in CW mode.
> 
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike 
> Schatzberg
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:08 PM
> To: k9yc at arrl.net; Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] din connector, etc.
> 
> The Orion II delays RF for 15 ms after closure of the amplifier contacts.
> This applies to Ant1 and Ant2 as well. 
> 
> The amplifier hang time is adjustable for either Ant1 or Ant2 but the 
> 15 ms delay is not adjustable and is applied in SSB and CW.
> 
> The hang time keeps the amp from dropping out between characters if 
> you wish. You can adjust it to hear your own echo coming back with 
> very fast QSK.
> 
> The 15 ms guarantees no hot switching of course with all QSK systems. 
> 
> No one has complained about a limitation in top speed that I am aware of. 
> 
> 73,
> Mike
> W2AJI
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Jim Brown <k9yc at audiosystemsgroup.com>
wrote:
>> 
>> Understood, Rick.  But 17msec pretty much rules out QSK above about 
>> 18
> WPM. A strange design compromise for Ten Tec.  :)  Frankly, I'm both 
> surprised and disappointed to see Ten Tec go for the lowest common 
> denominator -- they never used to do that.  For my money, amps with 
> open frame relays are for ragchewing on SSB, not serious operating.
>> 
>> FWIW, delay in the K3 is continuously adjustable, and I think it is 
>> in the
> FT1000MP too. I sold mine around 2008 to buy my K3s. The TS850, which 
> I also owned,  is fixed at about 8 msec. The K2 is 8 msec.
>> 
>> Also FWIW, K6XX published a simple "speed up" circuit for T/R relays 
>> quite a few years ago, which he credits to K1KP.
>> http://www.k6xx.com/radio/fastrely.pdf
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> 
>>> On Wed,9/24/2014 2:08 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>>> Jim, I just sent an email explaining exactly how the Eagle works.
>>> The Orion and Omni VII both have 15mS initial delay.  The Eagle is 17.
>>> 
>>> "17mS" is relative.
>>> 
>>> For amps with vacuum relays or PIN Diode switching, it is long.
>>> For amps with open-frame relays it is too short.
>>> 
>>> I have never seen an open-frame relay that can switch in all cases, 
>>> no matter what, in less than 20ms.
>>> The open-frame relay used in all Ameritron amps can occasionally 
>>> take as long as 22mS - even though Ameritron advertises 15mS.
>> 
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