[TenTec] din connector, etc.

Wed Sep 24 17:27:37 EDT 2014

Bob, when I submitting timing suggestions to John and Jack, I suggested they
tie the pre-dit delay automatically to the type of amp keying used (which is
menu selectable).  If you use 2-cable amp keying, it delays about 10ms; if
you use single cable keying, it delays about 25ms. 

The biggest problem with all of this is, even if the radio has the proper
adjustments, how many hams know how to set it up properly?  

WinKey created a slick feature, defining the post dit delay (hang time) as a
fixed (inverse) relationship to the keying speed.  If you key faster, the
delay is shorter; if you key slower, the delay is longer.  This avoids relay
chatter, regardless of what speed you key at.
On the down side, I don't like having to use a computer to adjust my keying
parameters.
Half the time when I get on the air, I don't even have the computer in the
shack switched on.

73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)

-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw
- K4TAX
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:12 PM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] din connector, etc.

Depends on how the radio is configured in conjunction with the amp.

If one has the radio, Orion or Omni VII,  and amp configured, such as with
the Centurion or Titan, there is no issue regarding delay.  If one is using
the N.O. relay out of the radio to key the amp then there is a delay.  To
answer your question it is YES and NO.

The Eagle radio provides excellent QSK within itself,  but does not have
provision to interface with a QSK amp.  It however will interface with a
non-QSK amp very satisfactorily.

The only objection I have running the Eagle and a non-QSK amp is the
clacking of the amp relay between CW elements.  To correct this, some
external delay is required such as provided by the Tentec 318 Amp interface.

73
Bob, K4TAX

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Schatzberg" <cherokeehillfarm at earthlink.net>
To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] din connector, etc.

> I'll ask on the 565/566 reflector whether anyone has issues with the 15 ms

> delay.
>
> My relays close in under 1 ms and I don't notice a problem.  Maybe I 
> didn't watch the scope close enough. I can hear echos.
>
> Mike
> W2AJI
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP <Rick at DJ0IP.de> wrote:
>>
>> MIKE, I AM COMPLAINING.
>> NOW YOU ARE AWARE OF ONE!  :-)
>>
>> By the way, the Orion originally shipped with no hang time.
>> Scott and I had a hefty debate whether QSK was the only thing needed and
>> eventually I convinced Jack that there were plenty of people who do not 
>> want
>> QSK and plenty more whose amp can't cope with it, so he had Gary contact 
>> me
>> to understand the problem and the requirements.  Gary changed the 
>> software
>> and the post dit delay (hang) was implemented.
>>
>> Unfortunately the Eagle didn't get this hang delay either.
>> Therefore an external box is required to add it when running older amps 
>> in
>> CW mode.
>>
>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
>> Schatzberg
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:08 PM
>> To: k9yc at arrl.net; Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] din connector, etc.
>>
>> The Orion II delays RF for 15 ms after closure of the amplifier contacts.
>> This applies to Ant1 and Ant2 as well.
>>
>> The amplifier hang time is adjustable for either Ant1 or Ant2 but the 15 
>> ms
>> delay is not adjustable and is applied in SSB and CW.
>>
>> The hang time keeps the amp from dropping out between characters if you
>> wish. You can adjust it to hear your own echo coming back with very fast
>> QSK.
>>
>> The 15 ms guarantees no hot switching of course with all QSK systems.
>>
>> No one has complained about a limitation in top speed that I am aware of.
>>
>> 73,
>> Mike
>> W2AJI
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Jim Brown <k9yc at audiosystemsgroup.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Understood, Rick.  But 17msec pretty much rules out QSK above about 18
>> WPM. A strange design compromise for Ten Tec.  :)  Frankly, I'm both
>> surprised and disappointed to see Ten Tec go for the lowest common
>> denominator -- they never used to do that.  For my money, amps with open
>> frame relays are for ragchewing on SSB, not serious operating.
>>>
>>> FWIW, delay in the K3 is continuously adjustable, and I think it is in 
>>> the
>> FT1000MP too. I sold mine around 2008 to buy my K3s. The TS850, which I 
>> also
>> owned,  is fixed at about 8 msec. The K2 is 8 msec.
>>>
>>> Also FWIW, K6XX published a simple "speed up" circuit for T/R relays
>>> quite a few years ago, which he credits to K1KP.
>>> http://www.k6xx.com/radio/fastrely.pdf
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>>>> On Wed,9/24/2014 2:08 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>>>> Jim, I just sent an email explaining exactly how the Eagle works.
>>>> The Orion and Omni VII both have 15mS initial delay.  The Eagle is 17.
>>>>
>>>> "17mS" is relative.
>>>>
>>>> For amps with vacuum relays or PIN Diode switching, it is long.
>>>> For amps with open-frame relays it is too short.
>>>>
>>>> I have never seen an open-frame relay that can switch in all cases,
>>>> no matter what, in less than 20ms.
>>>> The open-frame relay used in all Ameritron amps can occasionally take
>>>> as long as 22mS - even though Ameritron advertises 15mS.
>>>
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