[TenTec] din connector, etc.
Jim Allen
jim.allen at longhornband.net
Wed Sep 24 18:42:55 EDT 2014
I have appreciated your help Bob. Frankly, I don't read the manual the
same way you do, and can't. These radios are sufficiently complicated that
that is not really a practical alternative for many of us. We don't have
your background in electronics, or experience in practical diagnoses when
we run into problems. It would be wonderful indeed to know what you know
about this stuff., and I have lamented over that fact fairly often with no
solution.
I learned long ago that if everybody always did what they were supposed to,
I'd have to go to barber college. Nobody would come to me for advice on
how to structure their transactions, or get them out of the silly messes
they created or minimize the impact of their carelessness because they
hadn't read the laws and cases interpreting those laws like I had, and
spent countless hours reading legal texts and trying to fashion practical
solutions for these problems, and what to look out for in dealing with the
complexities of human nature. Many of these were educated people, with
experience in their business but the legal system has become sufficiently
complex that getting through some of these things on your own, without
training and experience, can be a challenge. It's the same here, it seems
to me.
Thanks again for your help. I spent this afternoon with the cover off and
a VOM probe in hand, blew no fuses, lost no limbs or dignity, and still
have some of my hair.
73 de W6OGC jim Allen
On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX <RMcGraw at blomand.net>
wrote:
> Yea it seems that everyone wants the radio to operate differently. If
> there were 100,000 hams, they would want it to operate 100,000 different
> ways.....or more, because some don't seem to know how they want it to
> operate. And that goes for some that don't even own the radio. They too
> seem to complain.
>
> They seemingly want the cheapest radio to perform like the most expensive
> elegant radio. Come on folks, get a grip on reality. It seems that hams
> buy a cheap stock street car and then complain that it can't keep up with
> the Indy 500 cars and it isn't their fault.
>
> All of this is so ridiculous. As I said earlier......has anyone taken
> time to read the manual and learn and understand how the radio works?
> Seems not to be the case. Daily, I answer question after question via
> personal e-mails received from persons that seem to find it easier to post
> a question than it is to read the manual. This is becoming all too
> common. Oh yes, I answer every personal e-mail and I do the research to
> find the answer. But are people in general that stupid? Seem that the
> Smart Phone technology has made for an increasingly more ignorant
> population.
>
> Sorry for the rant folks..........but darn it.......it is true.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP" <Rick at DJ0IP.de>
> To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 4:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] din connector, etc.
>
>
> Bob, when I submitting timing suggestions to John and Jack, I suggested
>> they
>> tie the pre-dit delay automatically to the type of amp keying used (which
>> is
>> menu selectable). If you use 2-cable amp keying, it delays about 10ms; if
>> you use single cable keying, it delays about 25ms.
>>
>> The biggest problem with all of this is, even if the radio has the proper
>> adjustments, how many hams know how to set it up properly?
>>
>> WinKey created a slick feature, defining the post dit delay (hang time)
>> as a
>> fixed (inverse) relationship to the keying speed. If you key faster, the
>> delay is shorter; if you key slower, the delay is longer. This avoids
>> relay
>> chatter, regardless of what speed you key at.
>> On the down side, I don't like having to use a computer to adjust my
>> keying
>> parameters.
>> Half the time when I get on the air, I don't even have the computer in the
>> shack switched on.
>>
>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob
>> McGraw
>> - K4TAX
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:12 PM
>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] din connector, etc.
>>
>> Depends on how the radio is configured in conjunction with the amp.
>>
>> If one has the radio, Orion or Omni VII, and amp configured, such as with
>> the Centurion or Titan, there is no issue regarding delay. If one is
>> using
>> the N.O. relay out of the radio to key the amp then there is a delay. To
>> answer your question it is YES and NO.
>>
>> The Eagle radio provides excellent QSK within itself, but does not have
>> provision to interface with a QSK amp. It however will interface with a
>> non-QSK amp very satisfactorily.
>>
>> The only objection I have running the Eagle and a non-QSK amp is the
>> clacking of the amp relay between CW elements. To correct this, some
>> external delay is required such as provided by the Tentec 318 Amp
>> interface.
>>
>> 73
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Schatzberg" <cherokeehillfarm at earthlink.net>
>> To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 3:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] din connector, etc.
>>
>>
>> I'll ask on the 565/566 reflector whether anyone has issues with the 15
>>> ms
>>>
>>
>> delay.
>>>
>>> My relays close in under 1 ms and I don't notice a problem. Maybe I
>>> didn't watch the scope close enough. I can hear echos.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> W2AJI
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP <Rick at DJ0IP.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> MIKE, I AM COMPLAINING.
>>>> NOW YOU ARE AWARE OF ONE! :-)
>>>>
>>>> By the way, the Orion originally shipped with no hang time.
>>>> Scott and I had a hefty debate whether QSK was the only thing needed and
>>>> eventually I convinced Jack that there were plenty of people who do not
>>>> want
>>>> QSK and plenty more whose amp can't cope with it, so he had Gary contact
>>>> me
>>>> to understand the problem and the requirements. Gary changed the
>>>> software
>>>> and the post dit delay (hang) was implemented.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately the Eagle didn't get this hang delay either.
>>>> Therefore an external box is required to add it when running older amps
>>>> in
>>>> CW mode.
>>>>
>>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
>>>> Schatzberg
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:08 PM
>>>> To: k9yc at arrl.net; Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] din connector, etc.
>>>>
>>>> The Orion II delays RF for 15 ms after closure of the amplifier
>>>> contacts.
>>>> This applies to Ant1 and Ant2 as well.
>>>>
>>>> The amplifier hang time is adjustable for either Ant1 or Ant2 but the 15
>>>> ms
>>>> delay is not adjustable and is applied in SSB and CW.
>>>>
>>>> The hang time keeps the amp from dropping out between characters if you
>>>> wish. You can adjust it to hear your own echo coming back with very fast
>>>> QSK.
>>>>
>>>> The 15 ms guarantees no hot switching of course with all QSK systems.
>>>>
>>>> No one has complained about a limitation in top speed that I am aware
>>>> of.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Mike
>>>> W2AJI
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Jim Brown <k9yc at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Understood, Rick. But 17msec pretty much rules out QSK above about 18
>>>>>
>>>> WPM. A strange design compromise for Ten Tec. :) Frankly, I'm both
>>>> surprised and disappointed to see Ten Tec go for the lowest common
>>>> denominator -- they never used to do that. For my money, amps with open
>>>> frame relays are for ragchewing on SSB, not serious operating.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, delay in the K3 is continuously adjustable, and I think it is in
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>> FT1000MP too. I sold mine around 2008 to buy my K3s. The TS850, which I
>>>> also
>>>> owned, is fixed at about 8 msec. The K2 is 8 msec.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also FWIW, K6XX published a simple "speed up" circuit for T/R relays
>>>>> quite a few years ago, which he credits to K1KP.
>>>>> http://www.k6xx.com/radio/fastrely.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed,9/24/2014 2:08 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>>>>>> Jim, I just sent an email explaining exactly how the Eagle works.
>>>>>> The Orion and Omni VII both have 15mS initial delay. The Eagle is 17.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "17mS" is relative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For amps with vacuum relays or PIN Diode switching, it is long.
>>>>>> For amps with open-frame relays it is too short.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have never seen an open-frame relay that can switch in all cases,
>>>>>> no matter what, in less than 20ms.
>>>>>> The open-frame relay used in all Ameritron amps can occasionally take
>>>>>> as long as 22mS - even though Ameritron advertises 15mS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>>> TenTec at contesting.com
>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>>>
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